Security... Of property and person.
- Thread starter Fair Weather Camper
- Start date
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
To get back to the reason of the thread..
FWC, I would trade an hour of your skills for an hour of Brian Smiths @ kravmagadevon.co.uk .
<<<clock his T shirt.
Along with Baldy JNR I've been doing it for over 2 years now and we fear no one
Well thanks for 'the heads up' Baldy.... I believe that's what we say nowadays.
Sure he, and his methods are top notch...
And for anyone needing more confidence to be out alone he'd definitely do the trick..*
But my OP was kinda more about how the fears of 'others is artificially, or culturally instilled (particularly into women, I spose) and how that may affect, or limit our choices of activities, because of the perceived, rather than actual danger...
I am also highly unafraid, or at least won't let any irrational fears stop me...
But not because of some tasty moves, that I've learned in self defence..
I guess I am physically stronger, than the average female, but I also tend to favour the self defence that comes with posture, 'attitude' even, a look in the eye perhaps that says "I don't think so mate..."
(Research done around assaults indicates that attackers go for people who already look like victims)
And maybe I have a good 'radar' for dodgy situations.
Plus a belief in my inalienable right to go about my business free from interference from others...
This may sound rather high falutin, but I think if we spend too much time and effort learning techniques to combat any violence, or aggression, we could possibly encounter, then aren't we just feeding into the validation of that culture of violence¥?
*And maybe, advocating self defence implies that "You're not safe out there, without these ninja skills" - Yet another limiter for those who are by their nature physically smaller, and weaker?
¥And we can all see where that culture has lead us....
I guess, it the same old personal choices versus the bigger picture, that we're looking at, here.... But even if I was unlucky enough to get done in by a 'nut job' next time, I'm out by myself, I reckon I still would have had x5 as much independent, and adventurous life, and living, as those who've stayed at home for fear of what might happen out there..
Ok verbosity shut down - phew... Off for a nice 'safe' walk on the Moor....
And yes.... Lovely T-shirt
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
I got ' "DONT MESS WITH ME" tattooed on my forehead.....
...
OH commented, "why did you waste money on that tattoo when, one glance and they will avoid you anyway".
Hmm,
How very rude
Quite clearly, does not subscribe to the
"Tis manners ; as maketh the the man"
School of thought.
Funny, how I could have posted the self same musing, on anothěr thread...
With, no doubt, exactly the same degree of notice taken.
cathyjc
Thru Hiker
Ditto.
My daughter, now as a cash strapped student, finds she has taken up an addiction which is really expensive - probably reduces spending left for alcohol - titter
.But as a med. student in Aberdeen (home of Scotlands Hyperdaric center) - she is well placed to specialise in Hyperbaric medicine if she wants.
She hillwalks too, and I worry far more about her safety walking home, in the back streets of Aderdeen on her own, in the wee small hours from a bar job she has.
On the iissue being discussed:-
Our traditionally male dominated society has always benefitted from women being a 'wee bit scared' of 'doing their own thing' and getting of line. Some of us revel in being a bit bolshy
.I met a group (5/6) middle aged women daywalking on a popular Angus munro. They were flabbergasted and in admiration that as a single female I would go out wild camping. Lots of comment along the line of - "wasn't I scared of something bad happening" etc. etc. - society had them well brain washed.
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cathyjc
Thru Hiker
Around bothies is a different kettle of fish.
Always be brepared to walk away. Escaping out of the midges, hubby + me + son retired to a bothy to find it inhabited by 3 very drunk and hyped up 'persons'.
We slept? (very badly) - they were up partying riotously until 5am and we were waiting (in next room) to get invaded by them all night.
Few years ago there was several reports of a guy doing the rounds of bothies nicking folks expensive kit (sleepingbags etc). Not fun to return back even from a short 'dander' to find your kit gone. I hide as much of my stuff as I can and padlock stuff together (multiple SBs padlocked togther will hopefully be a 'bu**er" to pack).
Always be brepared to walk away. Escaping out of the midges, hubby + me + son retired to a bothy to find it inhabited by 3 very drunk and hyped up 'persons'.
We slept? (very badly) - they were up partying riotously until 5am and we were waiting (in next room) to get invaded by them all night.
Few years ago there was several reports of a guy doing the rounds of bothies nicking folks expensive kit (sleepingbags etc). Not fun to return back even from a short 'dander' to find your kit gone. I hide as much of my stuff as I can and padlock stuff together (multiple SBs padlocked togther will hopefully be a 'bu**er" to pack
).
Enzo
Thru Hiker
Running joke on the trail show is asking people if they carry a gun 
I've got lots of mates who do krav, systema etc personally I've not been in a fight since middle school. Must be doing something right.
The visibility of lots of solo female hikers will hopefully change perceptions, I see more middle aged women walking round here than any other group, usually in large groups, but sometimes solo.
I've got lots of mates who do krav, systema etc personally I've not been in a fight since middle school. Must be doing something right.
The visibility of lots of solo female hikers will hopefully change perceptions, I see more middle aged women walking round here than any other group, usually in large groups, but sometimes solo.
Taz38
Thru Hiker
I avoid bothies as there seem to be groups of (mostly) men with cans and gear strewn everywhere in the ones I've come across...which I find annoying as they take over a dwelling thats for everyone's use, I guess its first come first served.
Not had any major issues with soloing, a few creepy types, poachers, gamekeepers, concerned ramblers...
Appearing slightly crazy helps...
Not had any major issues with soloing, a few creepy types, poachers, gamekeepers, concerned ramblers...
Appearing slightly crazy helps...
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
Ditto.
On the iissue being discussed:-
Our traditionally male dominated society has always benefitted from women being a 'wee bit scared' of 'doing their own thing' and getting of line. Some of us revel in being a bit bolshy
I met a group (5/6) middle aged women daywalking on a popular Agus munro. They were flabbergasted and in admiration that as a single female I would go out wild camping. Lots of comment along the line of - "wasn't I scared of something bad happening" etc. etc. - society had them well brain washed.
Mmn, and possibly benefitted from making us feel its always our first duty to stay home to care for the bairns, the elders, the hearth, the 'stead, and to keep the bed warm ... ?
It's hardly 'bolshy' of us to want to go and have the same fun outdoors, that the chaps have been enjoying for eaons; either solo or in company.
Anyway i'm sure that nowadays all right- thinking men (especially those on here) are fully behind our rights to have the equal time, and resources, and freedom so to do
Fear is a long-standing historical method of control ; and it doesn't have to be explicitly stated ; just implied.
I do wonder if all the murderyness and violence, that some people 'entertain' themselves with ; or endlessly view on the news doesn't somehow seep into the pschye too ... ?
'Bad stuff' happening to people at the hands of strangers gets into the news , because it's still really so rare , especially out in the wilds.
Running joke on the trail show is asking people if they carry a gun
I've got lots of mates who do krav, systema etc personally I've not been in a fight since middle school. Must be doing something right.
The visibility of lots of solo female hikers will hopefully change perceptions, I see more middle aged women walking round here than any other group, usually in large groups, but sometimes solo.
Yeah well 'Do you have a gun?', is really just a notch up from 'do you have self defence training?'
Again it's feeding into that idea that this is a risky thing we're doing, we need to have all this extra preparedness, and that if you don't you're a fool ...
Well I call bollix on such scaremongering, it's just more over-sensationalising.
People love a bit of drama ... Fair enough, but really you are far more at risk statistically, sat at home on your sofa...
You're probably not going around picking fights @Enzo, but going out hillwalking instead, that's what you're doing right
Visibility of solo women (rather than them hiding) is definitely what it's going to take to 'normalise' things.
I met a young, perfectly capable, woman cyclist , when I was taking my bike on tour, to to Mull last October ..
She was in a bit of a flap, cos she'd missed an earlier ferry, to meet a friend, with whom she was going cycle touring.
When she discovered that I was doing a trip by myself, she actually said " Oh i never thought of being able to go by myself"
Sure there are plenty of guys who'd rather not go by themselves ; for any number of reasons ; but very few who might not consider it a possibility...
Mainly because its always been part of 'guy' culture ; and we wimmin* still have quite a lot of catching up to do...
Having said that, there were a lot more visible solo women in the Pyrenees this year - still far fewer than the guys - but definitely out there doing it ...
I avoid bothies as there seem to be groups of (mostly) men with cans and gear strewn everywhere in the ones I've come across...which I find annoying as they take over a dwelling thats for everyone's use, I guess its first come first served.
Not had any major issues with soloing, a few creepy types, poachers, gamekeepers, concerned ramblers...
Appearing slightly crazy helps...
Appearing slightly crazy ...? Never thought of that one Taz - 'Daft as a brush' - generally works for me
And men ? Behaving in a slightly over-entitled fashion? Whatever next?
*even if that means we occasionally feel the need to come on places like this to 'whiffle' on, and annoy the establishment with our tiresome, and irrelevant, lady views, and opinions..
gixer
Thru Hiker
The problem with playing the sexism card is inevitably most of us only see things from one side of the discussion.
No doubt huggeeeeeeeeeeee advances still need to be made in equal rights, equal pay etc, but it's worth having a ponder that there are also many blokes out there that are frightened to out camping alone.
Not just camping, i have a mate that won't go the gym and another that won't go out to eat alone.
With blokes you have to think that, most of the time many will "act" like tough guys.
If you had a room with say 50 women and 50 blokes and you asked them "who would go out camping alone" i'd bet my underwear that more women would put their hand up.
Yet if it came down to actually going out camping alone there wouldn't be much of a difference.
It's a shame that women for centuries put this pressure on our sex to be manly, strong, tough and show no fear
If it wasn't for that pressure blokes in general would be a lot more honest
There is also the stereotype of personality differences
In general women are more sociable than us blokes, hence visiting the loo in flocks
You can even see a generalisation in countries, compared to the UK, Greeks enjoy doing activities in groups.
It's not uncommon for us to go out to eat and 14 people at the table, a restaurant in Nottm would go into panic mode if that happened there because weddings apart it's pretty much unheard of.
It's a pretty special group here (on trek-lite), if you look at your friends from school, work or the ones you've met on non-outdoor activities how many camp alone?
For me it's probably only a guy from work, even the "outdoors" folks usually go out in groups.
So it's all well and good playing the sex card, the reality is slightly more balanced though
No doubt huggeeeeeeeeeeee advances still need to be made in equal rights, equal pay etc, but it's worth having a ponder that there are also many blokes out there that are frightened to out camping alone.
Not just camping, i have a mate that won't go the gym and another that won't go out to eat alone.
With blokes you have to think that, most of the time many will "act" like tough guys.
If you had a room with say 50 women and 50 blokes and you asked them "who would go out camping alone" i'd bet my underwear that more women would put their hand up.
Yet if it came down to actually going out camping alone there wouldn't be much of a difference.
It's a shame that women for centuries put this pressure on our sex to be manly, strong, tough and show no fear
If it wasn't for that pressure blokes in general would be a lot more honest
There is also the stereotype of personality differences
In general women are more sociable than us blokes, hence visiting the loo in flocks
You can even see a generalisation in countries, compared to the UK, Greeks enjoy doing activities in groups.
It's not uncommon for us to go out to eat and 14 people at the table, a restaurant in Nottm would go into panic mode if that happened there because weddings apart it's pretty much unheard of.
It's a pretty special group here (on trek-lite), if you look at your friends from school, work or the ones you've met on non-outdoor activities how many camp alone?
For me it's probably only a guy from work, even the "outdoors" folks usually go out in groups.
So it's all well and good playing the sex card, the reality is slightly more balanced though
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
°Playing the sex card°.. Hmm - entertainment for another time methinks...
But I think it's a bit of a stretch blaming women, for men's agression towards each other, or towards women.
That's classic 'victim blaming' .
Men need to look to their own behaviour, and own it, not shift responsibility elsewhere..
Totally averse to the whole individual personality assumptions based on gender..
It's really dull, pointless, and counterproductive...
It's what's held both genders (but more so women) back for centuries.
Anyone who claims that men haven't historically held the balance of power, over women, mainly through the excercise of brute force, or institutionalised power structures. .
Really hasn't been paying attention.
Nope, Ive never understood the visiting the loo in company thing either...
Only my rrrs fits on the seat..
I guess it's another manifestation of feeling the need for security ?
PS I put absoloootely no pressure on you to act all 'manly' Gixer... Honestly I don't
(edited... Wayyy too many 'behaviours' sorry, it' was early-ish)
But I think it's a bit of a stretch blaming women, for men's agression towards each other, or towards women.
That's classic 'victim blaming' .
Men need to look to their own behaviour, and own it, not shift responsibility elsewhere..
Totally averse to the whole individual personality assumptions based on gender..
It's really dull, pointless, and counterproductive...
It's what's held both genders (but more so women) back for centuries.
Anyone who claims that men haven't historically held the balance of power, over women, mainly through the excercise of brute force, or institutionalised power structures. .
Really hasn't been paying attention.
Nope, Ive never understood the visiting the loo in company thing either...
Only my rrrs fits on the seat..
I guess it's another manifestation of feeling the need for security ?
PS I put absoloootely no pressure on you to act all 'manly' Gixer... Honestly I don't
(edited... Wayyy too many 'behaviours' sorry, it' was early-ish)
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Taz38
Thru Hiker
Yeah the loo thing is another need for security, safety in groups, like going to the staffroom or an all staff meeting in cliques.
I've always been happy to do stuff alone, guess that helps with doing solo trips. I also know (or very much pretend to) how to 'look after myself' just in case. And yes in my much younger years there were a few instances...but these days I don't get that kind of hassle.
I've always been happy to do stuff alone, guess that helps with doing solo trips. I also know (or very much pretend to) how to 'look after myself' just in case. And yes in my much younger years there were a few instances...but these days I don't get that kind of hassle.
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
Aldi have a special on Axes at the mo if there are any would be murderers reading this...
Imagine ; the ignominy ; of being done in ; by a cut-price tool....
Enzo
Thru Hiker
There was a big bit on r4 a while ago about all the TV shows and books being about violence against women. When they looked into it almost all the books were written by women for women. Don't know what to make of that, internalising? Just read female eunuch and pretty sure she'd have said masochism.
Taz38, your right of course, I don't remember ever seeing a solo woman wild camper, on ramblings last week they had 2 women who walked 25 mile days and wild camped. Mostly together I think and apparently talked constantly, I think that was a big part of the attraction. We are of course all different and not bound by gender stereotypes but my it is a stereotype that women tend to talk more for which a partner is apparently useful (I find it lowers the quality of conversation personally
)
Taz38, your right of course, I don't remember ever seeing a solo woman wild camper, on ramblings last week they had 2 women who walked 25 mile days and wild camped. Mostly together I think and apparently talked constantly, I think that was a big part of the attraction. We are of course all different and not bound by gender stereotypes but my it is a stereotype that women tend to talk more for which a partner is apparently useful (I find it lowers the quality of conversation personally
)
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
How so?
You mean forever after, associated with poor quality equippage?
There are worse crimes you know ; although not on here ; I grant you ..
Women going to the loo in groups ? - I aiways thought it was to gossip about the guys.
But what would I know I went when I needed a pee, not when everyone else did
Aha , glad to hear I wasn't missing out on anything interesting
There was a big bit on r4 a while ago about all the TV shows and books being about violence against women. When they looked into it almost all the books were written by women for women. Don't know what to make of that, internalising? Just read female eunuch and pretty sure she'd have said masochism.
Taz38, your right of course, I don't remember ever seeing a solo woman wild camper, on ramblings last week they had 2 women who walked 25 mile days and wild camped. Mostly together I think and apparently talked constantly, I think that was a big part of the attraction. We are of course all different and not bound by gender stereotypes but my it is a stereotype that women tend to talk more for which a partner is apparently useful (I find it lowers the quality of conversation personally
"Im not into gender stereotyping ; but here's some massive gender stereotyping"
Yup me too, one of the big attractions of going solo , is that i'm not bothering anyone else with my own interior landscape ; nor they me with theirs ... Plus total freedom to meander at will ...
Can really help sort ones own head out..
Of course some people are good company , some of the time .
Especially if they understand the joy of a companionable silence
Fair Weather Camper
Thru Hiker
Rare footage of 'His Highness'
And carrying his own chair??
Well I guess even El deserves the occasional day off ...
And carrying his own chair??
Well I guess even El deserves the occasional day off ...