Scarp 1
- Thread starter Munro277
- Start date
Makes you wonder about the efficacy of the crossing poles in high winds.Scarp 1 getting smashed at Red Tarn
Robert P
Thru Hiker
There is a photo on the Tarptent Facebook group. Looks like it is a rip starting from the attachment points for the tape that links to the crossing poles. I think these are patches on the fabric not sewn in to a seam. Just speculation, but it might have fared better without the crossing poles?... The lines used in the basic tent pitch are attached to reinforced areas of fabric on seams.Scarp 1 getting smashed at Red Tarn
Lot of straight-to-camera drama in that video.
Surprising to see those tents get damaged in that. Particularly the bent pole on the black-label Soulo. Isn't that supposed to be pretty much the strongest 1-person tent you can get.
Scarp 1 destroyed. Soulo tent pole bent. OEX Bobcat fine.
Surprising to see those tents get damaged in that. Particularly the bent pole on the black-label Soulo. Isn't that supposed to be pretty much the strongest 1-person tent you can get.
Scarp 1 destroyed. Soulo tent pole bent. OEX Bobcat fine.
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Robert P
Thru Hiker
That was what I wondered.
Franco Darioli
Ultralighter
Looks like , from a photo on FB, that the video clip has the Scarp already partly dismantled , pegs pull out, so hard to tell where and how the problem started.
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Padstowe
Thru Hiker
If I remember right (which isn't always the case) when I bought my first scarp in 2016 the crossing poles were only advertised to be used for snow loads, when I bought my second in the end of 2021 I believe it had them advertised for use in the wind too.
I too don't think they are good in the wind for the same reason Robert states, they just aren't backed by any seam and leaves the fabric with a consent pull at that point, making strong gusty strain on them worrying.
Having only used them once, to my mind they do a good job of keeping the fly off the inner and cutting down in condensation, but for wind and a decent job of keeping the fly off the inner I'd prefer to just stick to using a hiking pole, bit of cord and some shock cord and come off the middle attachment on the fly. This way in strong winds when the shock cord extends fully the strain (or at least most of it) is on the seams where it should be and serves you better imo.
I too don't think they are good in the wind for the same reason Robert states, they just aren't backed by any seam and leaves the fabric with a consent pull at that point, making strong gusty strain on them worrying.
Having only used them once, to my mind they do a good job of keeping the fly off the inner and cutting down in condensation, but for wind and a decent job of keeping the fly off the inner I'd prefer to just stick to using a hiking pole, bit of cord and some shock cord and come off the middle attachment on the fly. This way in strong winds when the shock cord extends fully the strain (or at least most of it) is on the seams where it should be and serves you better imo.
Daniel
Thru Hiker
Henry's reply
I have sent this to you in a direct email but, actually, when I look at it again, I do see a problem with the crossing poles setup. Because the crossing poles were not anchored to the PitchLoc corners as designed they were free to move around and stress the fabric at the base of the crossing pole clip strap. I think it’s highly likely that the stress induced by the flapping crossing poles in combination with the extra pullout stress produced the tear. It could be that the tear started at the crossing pole attachment and then migrated to that center pullout or it could be that the stress lines migrated from the crossing pole pullout to the center panel pullout. Either way there was just much stress exerted on the fly. It would also explain why we’ve never seen this tear before. Having the crossing poles free to move around relative to the PitchLoc corners would not be enough to induce tear because the adjoining fabric could move in response but having the extra guyline attached AND the excess stress on the crossing pole strap caused by the moving crossing pole was just too much.
Things happen and we are not blaming you. We can repair your fly and will pay shipping both ways.
I have sent this to you in a direct email but, actually, when I look at it again, I do see a problem with the crossing poles setup. Because the crossing poles were not anchored to the PitchLoc corners as designed they were free to move around and stress the fabric at the base of the crossing pole clip strap. I think it’s highly likely that the stress induced by the flapping crossing poles in combination with the extra pullout stress produced the tear. It could be that the tear started at the crossing pole attachment and then migrated to that center pullout or it could be that the stress lines migrated from the crossing pole pullout to the center panel pullout. Either way there was just much stress exerted on the fly. It would also explain why we’ve never seen this tear before. Having the crossing poles free to move around relative to the PitchLoc corners would not be enough to induce tear because the adjoining fabric could move in response but having the extra guyline attached AND the excess stress on the crossing pole strap caused by the moving crossing pole was just too much.
Things happen and we are not blaming you. We can repair your fly and will pay shipping both ways.
Daniel
Thru Hiker
it is and free postage both ways ,although all parties involved are adamant it was pitched right and demanding a new fly
Padstowe
Thru Hiker
True he didn't anchor the crossing poles to the tops of the pitchloc corners as you can clearly see from the video Robin posted.
Sure this would have gave more play to the crossing poles and I suppose it is possible that because it seems to have ripped from the attachment point above the corner that the play was a contributing factor, or just coincidence?
Sure this would have gave more play to the crossing poles and I suppose it is possible that because it seems to have ripped from the attachment point above the corner that the play was a contributing factor, or just coincidence?
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
it is and free postage both ways ,although all parties involved are adamant it was pitched right and demanding a new fly
I don't know Scarp, but is this what Henry was saying that the pitchlock corners weren't attached to poles which led the poles to swing freely?
dovidola
Thru Hiker
Before buying my Scarp 1 last year, I corresponded with Henry about the crossing poles. He was adamant that they contributed nothing for high wind performance, but were intended for snow loading only, and for making the tent completely freestanding.
As @Padstowe said, the crosspoles do a grand job of increasing the fly-to-inner clearance, and in consequence interior headroom, but I've found an additional guy wrapped around a walking pole does that job just fine, and without the extra weight.
Like this:
As @Padstowe said, the crosspoles do a grand job of increasing the fly-to-inner clearance, and in consequence interior headroom, but I've found an additional guy wrapped around a walking pole does that job just fine, and without the extra weight.
Like this:
Padstowe
Thru Hiker
I only ever done the same with my first scarp. I did find it better to clove hitch the pole into the middle lines coming off the ends as it adds a bit of stability to the hiking pole, and then tying off that pole to the peg loop of the centre line instead of using it's own peg.
Sadly I sold that one after buying a new one which I used the crossing poles once, you can see that they make this pull on the fabric that I got from lifting the sag a bit. Maybe just me but they feel and look like a rip waiting to happen.
I no longer have that one now either after sending it back twice.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Franco Darioli
Ultralighter
Is it possible that one or two of the corner pegs came out before the fabric failed? Without that corner tension it would be easy for the wind to shread the tent. ( same reason why sails should always be in tension, including those over the backyard).
Munro277
Thru Hiker
Is it not Scales tarn ?
on my first one 12 yrs ago ish never used cross poles
bought another,as it works well with new dog inside inner ! but i thought cross poles more for heavy snow loading
The lifting method many use,me too,to a pole works well enough but needs to go up to a pole and defo needs bungy ..in clip i saw it does neither
cross poles dont look to be fastened to top of end struts
no need for cross poles and lifting mod at same time
side onto wind in a corrie always nasty winds in those places,multi direction and often slingshotted ? to even higher numbers in wind speed
on my first one 12 yrs ago ish never used cross poles
bought another,as it works well with new dog inside inner ! but i thought cross poles more for heavy snow loading
The lifting method many use,me too,to a pole works well enough but needs to go up to a pole and defo needs bungy ..in clip i saw it does neither
cross poles dont look to be fastened to top of end struts
no need for cross poles and lifting mod at same time
side onto wind in a corrie always nasty winds in those places,multi direction and often slingshotted ? to even higher numbers in wind speed
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Daniel
Thru Hiker
sent another reply
I’ve only used crossing poles on a couple of occasions and came to the conclusion that they are a bit superfluous except for snow. The trekking pole lifter system with a shock cord loop seems to work well as illustrated by @dovidola and @Padstowe . It helps separate the fly and inner but also allows some flexibility, so I’m guessing that the fly might not have ripped if he had just used that properly (noting that he didn’t use a trekking pole or shock cord). The pitchlok ends provide incredible stability to the Scarp. One other observation is that the original Scarp had D rings on the top corners of the pitchloks. You could thread the crossing poles through those to provide extra security. The new version doesn’t have those. I don’t know whether that makes any difference. Anyway, it’s good that Henry has offered to repair the fly. I still think the Scarp is a great tent.
