Winter active insulation: which jackets?

[simplerandomwalk]

I realise the season is pretty much over, but I've been considering getting an "active insulation" jacket for when I go running/walking in winter (and possibly as everyday jacket in spring) and I'm hoping you can help me understand the differences between various options.

From reading around, I get the impression that the Patagonia Nano-Air hoody and the Arc'teryx Proton LT (or FL or whatever) are the most recommended, but I was wondering how they compare with for example Polartec Alpha jackets or offerings from Rab that are not as popular overseas.

Is Polartec Alpha also a good option as winter active insulation or is it less warm than the Patagonia/Arc'teryx jackets? And is the Rab Vapour Rise Summit jacket in a similar league or completely off? It has similar weight insulation (80g/m2) but it also looks offly thin in this Trekitt review..

Thanks for your help!

 

[Allsquare]

Probably not the answer you want, but as with most things you have to find what suits you - people are different, some run cold some run hot, some go up mountains some stay in the valleys, some like pockets and hoods some hate them, some carry heavy sacks some just a waist belt, some go out whatever the weather some only when the forecast is fair at least, etc (I'm sure you already really know this).

I've bought highly regarded or recommended gear and hated it (and been left wondering if pundits actually used it!) bought expensive gear and regretted it, bought cheap or second gear and loved it, altered gear then junked it, sold stuff on I didn't like and lost money. After you've enough experience, you know your usual use cases and what's worth trying - for you.

This forum (and others) are great for buying and selling gear. If you go out a lot, you get to try a lot! If you don't and have deep pockets you'll end up with a big gear cupboard or be too busy buying and selling to go out.

Oh, and there's no perfect jacket and it's alway winter (depending on where you go). And people busy posting on forums are often opinionated (including me), so take every recommendation or suggestion with a very strong pinch of salt. And beware groupthink - very common on forums like this.

(Apologies for any offence, I desperately need lockdown to end).

PS I use an arcteryx atom sl or wind jacket but only if there's an really cold edge to the wind. Otherwise, only a baselayer. "Active insulation" WTH!

 

[Allsquare]

Another rant. WTH should of course end with an "F". Beware the censors!!!

 

[simplerandomwalk]

Probably not the answer you want, but as with most things you have to find what suits you - people are different, some run cold some run hot, some go up mountains some stay in the valleys, some like pockets and hoods some hate them, some carry heavy sacks some just a waist belt, some go out whatever the weather some only when the forecast is fair at least, etc (I'm sure you already really know this).

I'm well aware of this, that's why my intention with a thread like this is to get people's knowledge together and make some sort of guide like "this jacket is better if your priority is breathability", "this one if you'd rather have less breathability but more warmth", etc.. rather than just have a whole thread about finding the right jacket for me, which would be slightly selfish.

Maybe it didn't come across in the first post, but that's what I meant..

 

[Allsquare]

Unfortunately, information is not knowledge. And knowledge is not wisdom...(but I'm sure you're wise enough to know this).

Definitely feeling antsy today

 

[tallest of pauls]

Unfortunately, information is not knowledge. And knowledge is not wisdom...(but I'm sure you're wise enough to know this).

Definitely feeling antsy today

Indeed.

Well what I do. Be it wise, thick or otherwise is have a base layer and windshirt, under a thicker layer could be a buffalo if cold enough. Invariably the buffalo will come off if it's steep. As I get higher it'll probably come back on. Once on top of whatever I normally take off all top layers, stick on a fresh dry base layer {unless its minging} and buffalo again with hardshellif needed.

That's what I do....

If its really bad on top. I go back down and go to the pub Instead.

 

[Foxster]

There's a bit of a disjoint in you saying "running/walking" in the winter.

What I wear when trail running, I quickly feel cold in when I walk or stop.

Also depends hugely on the weather. What I wear when it's windy, either side of 10°, when it's wet, etc. changes.

So it's really hard to suggest one or two things.

Personally I love my Montane Allez Micro Hoodies (Polartec Power Grid) as a base layer and as the only layer beyond about 10/12° when running. When its colder but still dry and not too windy below 10° I add my Rab Alpha Flash jacket (Polartec Alpha Direct). When it gets damper or windy I wear my Ron Hill Nightrunner jacket instead of the Rab Flash. When its gets towards zero and/or wet I wear my Decathlon Kiprun jacket.

 

[simplerandomwalk]

There's a bit of a disjoint in you saying "running/walking" in the winter.

Thanks for your reply! Yeah that's part of the problem for me because I just started running so I'm alternating running and walking and right now I seem to sweat with the first and be cold with the second, which is not ideal ^^'

 

[tom]

Never use any "winter" gear - just layering and the layers go off and on as required ,,,,

 

[Cali]

Is Polartec Alpha also a good option as winter active insulation or is it less warm than the Patagonia/Arc'teryx jackets?​

I have a few Polartec Alpha Direct jackets (Marmot 60, OR Ascendant, Strafe Alpha Direct) as well as the Proton FL, Atom SL and Atom LT. Of the Arcteryx jackets mentioned, Alpha is most similar to the Octa Loft insulation used in the Proton FL in terms of both warmth and breathability. Of course, when comparing all these you need to consider not only the type of insulation, but also the weight used (e.g., 60g, 90g) the air permeability of the face fabrics, and liner material if any. Then you’ll have a better baseline for evaluating individual jackets for your specific use cases and conditions.

For example, The Proton FL and ME Kinesis both use Octa insulation. The Proton has a mesh liner, the Kinesis insulation is linerless like Alpha Direct. The Proton Fortius Air 20 face fabric, however, is more air permeable than the Kinesis Helium AP. In terms of the Rab Vapour Rise, this UKC review of the Kinesis mentions the VR Summit as being "one of the closest competitors to the Kinesis in terms of weight, warmth and remit."

 

[Foxster]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah that's part of the problem for me because I just started running so I'm alternating running and walking and right now I seem to sweat with the first and be cold with the second, which is not ideal ^^'

You are going to struggle to find one thing that is not too warm when running but warmer when you stop.

What might work for you is something with open weave Alpha, like a Rab Flash or Macpac Nitro. I've worn both for running in the cold and they trap the heat when you stop but the air movement when running carries heat away. Only works when there's fairly low wind though, a decent breeze blows straight through and you can quickly chill when slowed.

The other thing I do is wear a couple of layers. Usually a Montane Allez Micro Hoodie as a base and the top layer I make sure has a full zip, like my Ron Hill Nightrunner. I can quickly regulate the temperature with the zip of the top layer or even remove it completely and knot it around my waist, quickly popping it back on when I stop.

 

[Franky]

Never use any "winter" gear - just layering and the layers go off and on as required ,,,,

Agree. Common sense, innit.....

 

[simplerandomwalk]

I agree in principle but if you have a lot of ups and downs and need to take your pack on and off all the time, it's a bit of a PITA.. obviously every item has its limits, but if something minimises the wardbrobe change, I'd prefer it..

 

[Mole]

If you don't want to take a garment off for changes in activity, something with big side or pitzips for ventilation when active might be a solution?

E.g. the Montane Hydrogen Smock or something from the Buffalo Systems range.

 

[Robert P]

For me Paramo is the closest I get to active insulation when moving (even on the Scottish mountains in winter I've never used a specialist insulating layer; just a thicker baselayer, maybe a fleece, and a shell, with good hat and gloves). But the Paramo model of lots of venting (particularly the side zips on their smocks) works really well and if I felt the need for an active insulation layer I'd be looking for something similar to make it reasonably adaptable

 

[Sdao38]

I realise the season is pretty much over, but I've been considering getting an "active insulation" jacket for when I go running/walking in winter (and possibly as everyday jacket in spring) and I'm hoping you can help me understand the differences between various options.

From reading around, I get the impression that the Patagonia Nano-Air hoody and the Arc'teryx Proton LT (or FL or whatever) are the most recommended, but I was wondering how they compare with for example Polartec Alpha jackets or offerings from Rab that are not as popular overseas.

Is Polartec Alpha also a good option as winter active insulation or is it less warm than the Patagonia/Arc'teryx jackets? And is the Rab Vapour Rise Summit jacket in a similar league or completely off? It has similar weight insulation (80g/m2) but it also looks offly thin in this Trekitt review..

Thanks for your help!

I pretty much swear by the pile pertex combination in the winter using some variation on vapour rise, driclime or polartec alpha direct

It's not just the extra warmth the pile brings in these jackets but the moisture management... They are really efficient at moving sweat away from the body... I've occasionally been using them next to the skin without a base layer and they are even more effective

Personally I find the nano air and similar jackets whilst warm and breathable they lack the moisture management abilities of the above

This winter in particular I've been using a marmot alpha 60 for running, walking and climbing... It's been a revelation... Like vapour rise or driclime on heat!

 

[cathyjc]

I pretty much swear by the pile pertex combination in the winter.
It's not just the extra warmth the pile brings in these jackets but the moisture management... They are really efficient at moving sweat away from the body... I've occasionally been using them next to the skin without a base layer and they are even more effective

Sounds like the sales pitch for Buffalo
Buffalo may be heavy but they - "do what it says on the tin" = same/similar technology

 

[One L]

A Buffalo Teclite possibly with a Helly(or similar) underneath. I find this a good combination when running on chilly winter days. If I was walking on the fells I would probably want something warmer + wetproof.

 

[Alf Outdoors]

I realise the season is pretty much over, but I've been considering getting an "active insulation" jacket for when I go running/walking in winter (and possibly as everyday jacket in spring) and I'm hoping you can help me understand the differences between various options.

From reading around, I get the impression that the Patagonia Nano-Air hoody and the Arc'teryx Proton LT (or FL or whatever) are the most recommended, but I was wondering how they compare with for example Polartec Alpha jackets or offerings from Rab that are not as popular overseas.

Is Polartec Alpha also a good option as winter active insulation or is it less warm than the Patagonia/Arc'teryx jackets? And is the Rab Vapour Rise Summit jacket in a similar league or completely off? It has similar weight insulation (80g/m2) but it also looks offly thin in this Trekitt review..

Thanks for your help!

Not sure who recommended the Nano-Air Hoody because it got the worst points in this review: Patagonia Nano-Air Hoody Review | GearLab (outdoorgearlab.com)

It's also really heavy...408g! You wouldn't want to be running far with that on. And it's insanely expensive too.
Not sure how breathable ultralight down hoodies are but you might be better off with one of those instead
Today I bought the Forclaz Trek 100 down hoody from Decathlon...In large, and without the labels, mine only weighs 279g, yet it only cost £49.99. That makes it about £200 cheaper than most down hoodies of similar weight on Ultralight Outdoor Gear! A real bargain in fact.
I bought it to replace my Zakti Plasma down hoody, which weighs 317g including it's drawstring closure carry bag...The Forclaz does not need a seperate carry bag as it folds up into one of it's own pockets (either one).
The Zakti cost me £35 about 4 years ago. I noticed the Forclaz is noticeably warmer than my Zakti. Even after wearing it for less than 30 seconds I could feel the warmth building up...It's amazingly warm for it weight.

 

[random_watcher]

Not sure who recommended the Nano-Air Hoody because it got the worst points in this review: Patagonia Nano-Air Hoody Review | GearLab (outdoorgearlab.com)

It's also really heavy...408g! You wouldn't want to be running far with that on. And it's insanely expensive too.
Not sure how breathable ultralight down hoodies are but you might be better off with one of those instead
Today I bought the Forclaz Trek 100 down hoody from Decathlon...In large, and without the labels, mine only weighs 279g, yet it only cost £49.99. That makes it about £200 cheaper than most down hoodies of similar weight on Ultralight Outdoor Gear! A real bargain in fact.
I bought it to replace my Zakti Plasma down hoody, which weighs 317g including it's drawstring closure carry bag...The Forclaz does not need a seperate carry bag as it folds up into one of it's own pockets (either one).
The Zakti cost me £35 about 4 years ago. I noticed the Forclaz is noticeably warmer than my Zakti. Even after wearing it for less than 30 seconds I could feel the warmth building up...It's amazingly warm for it weight.

The person who recommended the Patagonia Nano-Air probably did because the original post was asking for recommendations for a winter active insulation piece. The idea of active insulation is that is it breathable and comfortable enough that you can wear it thought a range of activities and temperatures without having to take it off, with this in mind comfort is more important than weight.

I own a an original nano air that I bought second hand about 4 years ago, it is probably one of my most used items of clothing and I would also recommend it to anyone looking for a layer they can put on, leave on and regulates temperature very well. I cycled to work in mine this morning and despite a cold start warmed up to a good temperature and most importantly didn't have to stop to take it off and didn't arrive at work a sweaty mess. If I had done the same journey with a down jacket I doubt this would have been the case.

Sometimes comfort and practicality are more important than just weight. (Mine weighs 354g in a size small).

 

[EM-Chiseller]

For below 7deg when you'll be moving slower due to the ground and air conditions... Montane hydrogen smock...
-5 and up... I'm currently loving an old season berghaus jacket that is part insulated... Combined with my Nitro.

I was hiking last night and managed a couple of hours from zero to - 5/6. When the climb became stiff and slow and my back was wet with some sweating from my pack... I added my lightweight wp shell jacket and was comfortable for another 4 hrs ranging from - 6 to 0.

I'm a big fan of brynje with a pulse and a windshell too and have been playing around with the OMM Core hoodie with various shells. I find it's warmer than the Nitro, but doesn't wick as good.

 

[des]

I've been looking at these active insulation type jackets. Would be ideal to have something that works in variable temperatures and helps reduce layer changes.

I currently use synthetic baselayer + full zip fleece + lightweight windproof. These work well to start off with, as I can use the zips to prevent overheating but as I approach the summit I need to add my hardshell. The puffer only comes out on summits if I can be bothered.

I'm not convinced an active insulation piece is going to do what I'm hoping but here's my current shortlist:

Rab Xenair Alpine Light
Rab Vapour Rise Alpine Light
Patagonia Nano Air
Patagonia Thermal Airshed
Mountain Equipment Kinesis
Mountain Equipment Switch Pro

Has anyone got experience with using any of these jackets for active insulation in variable temperatures below freezing?

 

[Darren]

I've been looking at these active insulation type jackets. Would be ideal to have something that works in variable temperatures and helps reduce layer changes.

I currently use synthetic baselayer + full zip fleece + lightweight windproof. These work well to start off with, as I can use the zips to prevent overheating but as I approach the summit I need to add my hardshell. The puffer only comes out on summits if I can be bothered.

I'm not convinced an active insulation piece is going to do what I'm hoping but here's my current shortlist:

Rab Xenair Alpine Light
Rab Vapour Rise Alpine Light
Patagonia Nano Air
Patagonia Thermal Airshed
Mountain Equipment Kinesis
Mountain Equipment Switch Pro

Has anyone got experience with using any of these jackets for active insulation in variable temperatures below freezing?

Have the Kinesis and had a Rab VR summit, also have the montane hydrogen jacket. Usually wear them with a long sleeve montane dart t shirt.
For sub zero temps the hydrogen would be my choice. The Rab is a great jacket but the fit didn't suit me and was too bulky around the waist, would only use it in plus temps too. Kinesis is an awesome jacket, warmer and better fitting than the Rab, but again no good in sub zero on its own. I've boosted it but using a gilet underneath tho.
Factor in the wind too as both the kinesis and hydrogen let a noticeable amount of wind through which affect how warm they feel.

 

[des]

Thanks Darren. The dart full sleeve 1/4 zip is my winter baselayer of choice. Works really well for me.

There are too many options for an active insulation jacket but I'm not convinced any of them will help me avoid layer changes from base to summit in sub zero temps.

Still tempted to give it a go but I think my decision will probably end up being based on what I can find the best discount for during the new year sales

 

[el manana]

I've been looking at these active insulation type jackets. Would be ideal to have something that works in variable temperatures and helps reduce layer changes.

I currently use synthetic baselayer + full zip fleece + lightweight windproof. These work well to start off with, as I can use the zips to prevent overheating but as I approach the summit I need to add my hardshell. The puffer only comes out on summits if I can be bothered.

I'm not convinced an active insulation piece is going to do what I'm hoping but here's my current shortlist:

Rab Xenair Alpine Light
Rab Vapour Rise Alpine Light
Patagonia Nano Air
Patagonia Thermal Airshed
Mountain Equipment Kinesis
Mountain Equipment Switch Pro

Has anyone got experience with using any of these jackets for active insulation in variable temperatures below freezing?

Sorry can't help with these ones

I'm not sure if any of these jackets are Polartec Alpha but I would maybe have a look at the Polartec Alpha Koolaid thread for suggestions.

The best jacket i have for subzero walking is the Montane Hydrogen. I don't hill walk enough in these conditions to use it much but its used daily in Winter for fairly active dog walks and as breathable active insulation its excellent.

Winter hill walking is usually a windproof with an Alpha mid layer, or alpha used as a base layer if conditions dictate.