The Kindness of Strangers

Discussion in 'Hiking Chat' started by WilliamC, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. MartinK9

    MartinK9 Section Hiker

    he use to canvass the area before striking......
    rootsman, cathyjc, edh and 1 other person like this.
  2. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    The ladies say that under his fly there lurks a stick of dynamite...
  3. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Problem is though Rog people sum up an extremely complex situation based upon nothing but how they are inconvenienced.

    Intelligence reports are not issued to either the public or airport security staff, they're just given orders what to allow and what not to allow.

    To sum up something not being allowed into hand luggage based 100% on how it could harm someone else is very simplistic.
    Other considerations need taking into context.
    Can it be used to harm the aircraft, can it be used to open the cockpit door, can it disguise something that can be used any of the above............ the list goes on.

    It's not even an inconvenience if everyone just carries what they're likely to need on the plane and nothing more, which lets face it is the real reason for hand luggage.

    Airlines and passengers HAVE to take a massive amount of blame here.
    Most airlines now charge for hold luggage so people load up everything and their aunt into hand luggage, this at the exact same time stiffer hand luggage security measures are bought in.
    Passengers then want cheaper tickets, so they avoid paying the 20 quid or so for hold luggage, then complain when their (previously stated) restricted items are confiscated.

    Of course you and i know we don't intend to do harm with our items, we'll tell the security staff we're not terrorists, oddly enough though that's EXACTLY what a terrorist will say.
    It's not like the security staff know us so can trust us either.
    That's were folks tend to feel their "special" and the rules obviously don't apply to them cause they wouldn't hurt anyone.

    Worth trying that approach if a local cop stops any of us walking home from the pub with a locking folding knife, i recon the "i'm not intending to do harm" will get us about as far in that case as well :D:D:D:D
  4. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    I carry my lock knife everywhere (except onto planes and into the palace of Westminster). Always have, always will. Thankfully, most airport security staff have the common sense to ignore tent pegs, but there's always the occasional jobsworth who seems to relish causing inconvenience and expense to innocent backpackers.

    I'll ask again, what plane was ever hijacked with tent pegs or anything which could be disguised with them before the restrictions were introduced?
  5. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    As i said in my first post, the fact that you are somehow getting through airport security with restricted items is not something to be proud about, i certainly would not recommend boasting about it on a public forum.
    Likewise you flaunting the UK knife laws and boasting about it.

    It is pointless discussing this anymore
    As i've said the vast vast majority of intel is NOT made public, so you and i have absolutely no idea on what plans have been thwarted or what intel has said is a possible threat.

    There is little point arguing about what is or is not a real threat, the fact is those are the rules, you agree to those rules when you book a flight,if you choose to disregard those rules then that's your choice, as are any consequences.

    I just feel sorry for the security staff and all the poor buggers that get stuck behind you every time you get stopped at the security checkpoint :banghead:

    My intention was to give folks a view from the other side of the counter.
    It IS a tough job, as Rog has shown there are folks that seem to believe the rules do not apply to them, these folks make a tough job even tougher and cause countless delays for all us other passengers.

    So it might just be worth thinking about how many "special" folks have gone through that check point in that shift alone before judging the security staff.

    Recon i've made that clear so i'll bow out of further posts on this matter for now :thumbsup:
    edh likes this.
  6. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    "what plane was ever hijacked with tent pegs or anything which could be disguised with them before the restrictions were introduced?"

    None. At all. Ever.

    Sorry, I just don't respond well to "Da Roolz are Da Roolz because they're Da Roolz."

    Especially when the logical inconsistencies are so glaring. You can't have a tent peg but a big glass bottle is fine. It's just BS.

    Govt: "Quick, the public demands a security response to 911."
    Spooks: "Let's make them feel safer by curtailing their freedom."
    Air industry: "Great, now we can charge a £30 camping tax by making them put their tiny rucksacks in the hold. Don't want to hurt duty-free sales though, so big glass bottles must still be permitted"

    Pffft

    It's about time the industry regulator kicked some @ss
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  7. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    @gixer I get your point, but in our case it went down something like this:
    X-ray guy flags up my wife's hand luggage.
    Young security woman: You can't take that hand luggage; you could break it and use it as a weapon. Put it in hold.
    Bozena: But it will probably get broken in hold.
    Young security woman: Not my problem. Put it in hold.
    My wife goes back to put it in hold.
    So far, fair enough: rules are rules.
    I wait for Bozena. A couple of people later, the X-ray guy flags up a young man's luggage.
    Young security woman: You can't take that hand luggage; you could break it and use it as a weapon. Put it in hold.
    Young man (Is it any coincidence that he's young and handsome?): But it will probably get broken in hold.
    Young security woman: Yes, that would be a pity. Ok then, you can take it.
    The arbitrariness is a disincentive to obey the rules.
    Incidentally, this is the same security check where a few months ago we pointed out to the security guard that the person in front of us who had just been cleared had a full bottle of water in the pocket of his hand luggage bag. The guard's answer was that it was fine because he would probably drink it before he got on the plane!
  8. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    As an overseas resident, surely you realise that the purpose of hand luggage is so that you can bring those heavy but low volume items (books, cds, pork pies, flapjacks etc) without your hold luggage being overweight?
    :sneaky:
    gixer likes this.
  9. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    Books will have to be confiscated too. I could bore someone to death with the some of the stuff I read.
  10. MartinK9

    MartinK9 Section Hiker

    Mine was a bungee, the metal bits on the end apparently, I shimmfed the whole trip.... even more so when sat next to a woman Knitting with No10 Needles FFS. :banghead:

    How Cliff laughed.....
  11. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Human inconsistencies are abound everywhere though mate.

    I've been stopped speeding and it was absolutely obvious they had me banged to rights, but i put my hands up gave them my explanation and they let me off.

    The difference is, i wouldn't let that lucky encounter with a decent cop become my norm, and i certainly wouldn't use it as a defence for speeding in the future.


    It's NOT a perfect system by any stretch of the imagination.

    The system we currently have is a balance.
    Security is balanced previous attacks, intel on future risks, against cost and passenger throughput, you can look at airlines like ElAl to see what heavier security measures look like, absolutely certainly it's the most secure airline this side of Airforce 1, but it's also expensive and it takes an age to get through their security measures.

    If you are caught taking something through security that's restricted then as an adult it's 100% your responsibility.
    If you knew it was restricted but still tried your luck then that's just plain stupid and irresponsible in my opinion.
    Don't get me wrong we all do stupid and irresponsible things sometimes (like speeding :whistling:) but i don't see how we can fairly stand there and defend ourselves and argue when we know we pushed it.

    If you "got away with it" before or someone in front or behind you "got away with it" then i don't see how that really matters, it certainly makes no difference to you if your item has been confiscated.

    For me personally i just make sure the next time i don't have to go through that again.
    Flying is stressful enough these days without having "special" folks stand there arguing cause they think the rules somehow don't apply to them.

    In fairness though justice is often served.
    I've seen holiday makers arrested (usually assaulting said security staff or being verbally abusive) and on several occasions held until they've missed their flight :whistling:

    Witnessed 1 guy miss his flight twice cause he refused to remove a baseball cap with a metal peak.
    Thing is the airlines do not refund on these occasions so he had to pay for 3 flights, and guess what, the 3rd flight he removed his baseball cap :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

    Personally just want a easy life, even if the procedures are wrong what's the point in arguing with minimum wage security personnel, it's not like they have ANY say in the rules, not even their supervisors or mangers.
    You might as well stand there arguing with the Xray machine for the good it'll do you :D:D:D
    All you do is make what should be an enjoyable journey stressful, delay every poor bugger behind you and pee off a person that's just trying to put food on their table like you and i
    edh likes this.
  12. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Feta cheese and Olive oil here

    My machines bloody stink of the stuff when the kids travel back to university :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
    It's not like you can't find the bloody stuff in sainburys either :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
  13. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    To be honest, we weren't trying to get away with anything; it just hadn't occurred to us the jar would be banned. (As Rog T pointed out, we spent most of the journey with glass bottles of duty-free.) To add insult to injury, all our baggage turned up safely at Birmingham airport except one small bag containing nothing but an empty jar. It finally arrived two days later. I reckon it got displaced somewhere because it was so small.
    One good thing about Hatay airport is that they take you and your luggage aside, so no one got held up.
    gixer likes this.
  14. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Was talking in general William, to be honest i have absolutely no idea if jars are allowed or not

    As i say i try not to take any hand luggage at all, if i need the extra space then i'll just throw bulky coats in there.
    If i'm taking only hand luggage then i'll not take anything liquid, i don't even bother taking a toothbrush anymore.

    My ideal is to have the least amount of stuff to lug around the airport and plane as possible.
  15. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Just to clarify - the incident at Christchurch airport with the tent pegs -
    a) we weren't holding anyone up as we were taken to one side.
    b) we certainly were not asking for any 'special' treatment, just trying to find a way to 'sort out' what was an error our part. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time to return and put the offending items in hold baggage :( and they were confiscated.

    To put the thread back on track -

    Years ago flying to Seville, the bag with all my 3 year olds clothes didn't arrive :arghh::arghh::arghh:. An adult with no clothes is one thing - a 3 year old with no change of clothes is a bit harder to manage. We were staying an hour further south in a rather out of the way place. 2 days later a guy turned up at the door with the bag which had bust open - but nothing missing :). He'd come all the way from Seville and had spent several hours lost finding us. Not a courier...….just a friendly local who put himself out to help :wideyed::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
    gixer and WilliamC like this.
  16. Padstowe

    Padstowe Thru Hiker

    To be honest i believe that if someone has a plan to do **** then safety measures be damned they will find their way round them. But airports nowadays have to be seen to be making an effort for public safety, the people who make the rules know its a pointless en-devour but it does cover their ass for insurance reasons. Maybe that's just my way of thinking?
    edit: On the kindness of strangers, after spending the guts of 17yrs on the road its these people who give me faith in our future.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  17. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    Recon the mods have been moreeeeeeeeee than patient with this thread detour, don't really want to push it BUT if i can just say this i'll be done, honest :whistling:

    It's not just people with bad intentions that cause injuries or damage, to people or planes though.
    I've personally witnessed a poor bloke get what looked like pretty serious head injures from some twonks megaaaaaaaaa overloaded hand luggage falling on his head.
    The bag had obviously moved during a pretty bumpy flight, someone then opened the overhead locker and what must have been around a 20kg piece of hand luggage fell onto the poor blokes head.

    They ended up strapping him to a stretcher to disembark him :(

    The 5kg weight limit makes a bit more sense when you consider things like that.

    On another flight, we were delayed 2 hours because on the flight out, a glass jar full of olive oil had smashed, the flight crew were concerned because it was soaking wet in the area above the avionics.

    The machines i fix Xray the bags that go into the cargo hold of planes, again with my own eyes i've witnessed human stupidity at the highest levels.
    You really wouldn't believe what people put in their luggage.

    There are lots and lots of very stupid people on this planet, a LOT of what airport security does is protect them (and you) from themselves.
    Again though, being a very complex issue things like this are often overlooked.

    How about this new phenomenon of flight rage, obvious not terrorists but would you really want these ever growing group of twonks to be armed with say a snapped tent pole or peg that fell out of your hand luggage?

    Last thing i'll say on this.
    The vast majority of threats are not made public, for obvious reasons, likewise it's extremely rare that the public will hear of any attacks that were prevented, so even for me being in the trade so to speak i'm ignorant to most of the perceived risks, anyone member of the public forming opinions would be even more ignorant of them.

    This makes stuff like bottles of liquid being confiscated but being able to buy liquid after the checkpoint seem like insanity, but if you see the hoops suppliers have to jump through, the security those bottles have to go through, even the staff that sell said water to you, it will start to make more sense.

    End of the day these people are trying to ensure you have a safe trip, yes some are obnoxious twerps (what trade or walk of life doesn't have them?), but far far more are hard working, conscientious people that take pride in ensuring you have as safe a flight as possible.

    Surely it's not been missed by others that a thread titled "The Kindness of Strangers" didn't take much to swing towards calling absolute strangers "jobsworths" and judging an entire world wide service industry based on a couple of bad experiences :whistling:

    I think the mods have been very gracious in letting this thread run it's tangent, i would be grateful if we could please end the airport talk here.

    If anyone has any questions about what's allowed it's best to contact the airline 24 hours before departure.
    If anyone has any general questions i'll be more than happy to help if they PM me or start another thread, just bear in mind that i work in a technical capacity down in the dungeons of airports, i do have mates that work top side though :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    cathyjc likes this.
  18. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    "didn't take much to swing towards calling absolute strangers "jobsworths""

    Sorry about that. I'll use the @gixer approved phrase "obnoxious twerps" in future. :D
    gixer likes this.
  19. paul

    paul Thru Hiker

    Mod is in the gorms for a week so knock yourself out Tolstoy :D

    For the record i never take carryon these days. All in the hold save for a phone and docs which go in pockets.
    gixer likes this.
  20. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    I usually take a few spare clothes in hand baggage. Along the lines of - "what would I need most if my bag didn't turn up ? "
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  21. Graham

    Graham Thru Hiker

    :roflmao::roflmao: Harsh but fair @gixer
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  22. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    [​IMG]

    I think Tolstoy's command of the English language was better :bag:
    edh likes this.
  23. Rog Tallbloke

    Rog Tallbloke Thru Hiker

    Must have been a tad breezy up in the 'Gorms this last week. Which shelter did @Shewie take?
  24. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Friday evening we were heading out of İnköy, a small but sprawling village to the south of the Bolkar when we heard a woman shouting out of an upstairs window, "Run, run. Don't miss them!" Seconds later, a young boy comes shooting out of the gate and thrusts two loves of hot flatbread into my hands and dashes back inside.

    The next day we were heading down a hillside when we came across a cowherd with his grazing cattle (with some really cute calves). After greeting us, he reached into the pocket of his şalvar (baggy trousers) and poured us both a handful of sunflower seeds.
    Padstowe, Lady Grey, Mole and 6 others like this.
  25. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Thanks to Osman, who picked up two smelly strangers and gave them a lift for the last 5 km to Aladağ town and saved them a dull stretch of uphill, and who on learning that they would have an hour to wait for transport on treated them to tea. The perfect end to a fine couple of day's walking.
    Max, Mole, gixer and 5 others like this.

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