Sleeping pad comfort experiments and comparisons

tom

tom

Thru Hiker
Locking back with nostalgia and longing to the days when I could and would get a good night sleep pretty much anywhere. On top of rolled out sleeping bag on a pavement in Iran, or on the bare ground in some desert, on railway station platforms, or forest floors – we never had anything to sleep on (did sleep mats even exist back then …?). But these days, I'm much more sensitive and for my big trips, weight is a major issue as it limits how much food I can take. And as said earlier here, TAR mats are the worst IMO.

I’ve been experimenting a bit recently in the ongoing search for comfortable sleep pads. Not much concerned with overnighters or short trips, but mainly with hikes that take a couple of weeks. With the current lockdown, our roof terrace made for test nights under stars – who would have thought...

I noticed that comfort breaks down into different parts: my Exped AirMat HL M Regular (uninsulated, 310gr) is the most comfortable UL mat I own to lie on - but wakes me up and disrupts sleep when turning (which I do a lot) more than my other pads.

The alternatives are my to-go-to pad for some years now - the STS (yellow) uninsulated UL Sleeping Mat (shortened to 110cm @268gr) and secondly, on @Arne L. 's recommendation, my new Exped FlexMat Plus (shortened to 107cm @235gr). I combine the Exped FlexMat Plus with a 145cm x 48cm piece of cheap Hong Kong double sided alu foil folding mat (53gr including a 34cm pocket at the foot end which can be filled with extra clothing, a sit mat etc for cushioning) to fit my size (5'10'').

IMG_20210212_154650_1.jpg
Pocket at the foot end which can be filled with extra clothing or a sit mat etc for cushioning
IMG_20210212_154718.jpg

To my surprise, I cannot tell which of the two is more comfortable to lie on. But the Exped FlexMat Plus seems the least sleep disruption when I turn. Which is great in some ways - similar comfort but no inflating-deflating hazzle, no puncture worries, almost same weight (the STS needs a 35gr silvered foam peace for insulation underneath) and instant access to stretch out on breaks during the day - but more bulk to carry of course.

And then I thought how the overlap torso section lends itself to “layering” – why not add extra clothing or a down jacket in-between the two? A test night proved that everything stayed in place overnight – bingo…! Obviously, there won’t always be extra clothing for every night but a bit of extra comfort for some nights is nonetheless welcome on a thru-hike.

Temperature wise, the Exped FlexMat Plus / alu foil folding mat combi (with a small CF sitmat in the foot end pocket as pictured) proved comfortably warm at present sub zero temps (under a 20 degree zpacks quilt zipped up to the hips as I always do in colder temps). No notable difference between nights on Exped AirMat HL or my STS (both with a alu foil foam mat underneath and a torso piece of 3mm CF on top).
 
Dave V

Dave V

Moderator
Staff member
tom said:
Locking back with nostalgia and longing to the days when I could and would get a good night sleep pretty much anywhere. On top of rolled out sleeping bag on a pavement in Iran, or on the bare ground in some desert, on railway station platforms, or forest floors – we never had anything to sleep on (did sleep mats even exist back then …?). But these days, I'm much more sensitive and for my big trips, weight is a major issue as it limits how much food I can take. And as said earlier here, TAR mats are the worst IMO.

I’ve been experimenting a bit recently in the ongoing search for comfortable sleep pads. Not much concerned with overnighters or short trips, but mainly with hikes that take a couple of weeks. With the current lockdown, our roof terrace made for test nights under stars – who would have thought...

I noticed that comfort breaks down into different parts: my Exped AirMat HL M Regular (uninsulated, 310gr) is the most comfortable UL mat I own to lie on - but wakes me up and disrupts sleep when turning (which I do a lot) more than my other pads.

The alternatives are my to-go-to pad for some years now - the STS (yellow) uninsulated UL Sleeping Mat (shortened to 110cm @268gr) and secondly, on @Arne L. 's recommendation, my new Exped FlexMat Plus (shortened to 107cm @235gr). I combine the Exped FlexMat Plus with a 145cm x 48cm piece of cheap Hong Kong double sided alu foil folding mat (53gr including a 34cm pocket at the foot end which can be filled with extra clothing, a sit mat etc for cushioning) to fit my size (5'10'').

View attachment 29593
Pocket at the foot end which can be filled with extra clothing or a sit mat etc for cushioning
View attachment 29594

To my surprise, I cannot tell which of the two is more comfortable to lie on. But the Exped FlexMat Plus seems the least sleep disruption when I turn. Which is great in some ways - similar comfort but no inflating-deflating hazzle, no puncture worries, almost same weight (the STS needs a 35gr silvered foam peace for insulation underneath) and instant access to stretch out on breaks during the day - but more bulk to carry of course.

And then I thought how the overlap torso section lends itself to “layering” – why not add extra clothing or a down jacket in-between the two? A test night proved that everything stayed in place overnight – bingo…! Obviously, there won’t always be extra clothing for every night but a bit of extra comfort for some nights is nonetheless welcome on a thru-hike.

Temperature wise, the Exped FlexMat Plus / alu foil folding mat combi (with a small CF sitmat in the foot end pocket as pictured) proved comfortably warm at present sub zero temps (under a 20 degree zpacks quilt zipped up to the hips as I always do in colder temps). No notable difference between nights on Exped AirMat HL or my STS (both with a alu foil foam mat underneath and a torso piece of 3mm CF on top).
Click to expand...

I contemplated using a foam mat last night but decided against it in the end. Sometimes I sleep well on them, other I don't at all.
 
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Teepee

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Those aluminized mats are quite comfy I find. Of all the mats I have, they have the best feel to lie on.

Often, I'll find a nice grassy pitch thats really flat and comfy and just sleep on the foam mat/ leaving my inflatable mat still packed up.

A combo of my folding dimpled mat and a windscreen reflector type is surprisingly good.
 
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J

Jamess

Section Hiker
When supplementing an air mat in winter there seem to be two strategies (both used here), ccf typically on top of the air mat and foil underneath.

Various posts on backpacking light tend to confirm my assumption that minimising conductive heat loss rather than reflecting radiant heat is the most efficient strategy, although of course you can combine both.

I use ccf on top of my pad in winter and a reflective sheet on top in shoulder seasons, although that's done through just trying things rather than a more scientific approach. I've only used a reflective sheet underneath the pad once and it didn't seem to do much.

How do others maximise r value gain / minimise heat loss?
 
EM-Chiseller

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
I've never tried foam on top of my pad... I use a 3 mm? Foam pad underneath in winter. On my exped i think (but don't know) that it wouldn't be as warm on top.
 
EM-Chiseller

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
Should have added I've used a foil blanket sheet underneath from. Time to time. More just to protect the pad and that it's as light as polycro but can be used in an emergency, rather than just carried to add any heat. I've never suffered with or with out it, so again I can't comment.
I do know that a slab of beef will defrost quicker sat on a sheet of tin foil than just on a plate.... So that suggests the conductivity of the sheet is drawing the cold out from the frozen lump?
 
WilliamC

WilliamC

Thru Hiker
I've found that a 3mm CCF mat on top of a Klymit Insulated Static V is warmer than one underneath it when used with a quilt. With a NeoAir, I put the CCF underneath as the NeoAir works in part by reflecting IR back to you and it seems to me that the CCF might block that.
There has been much mention on here at various times of the CCF "picnic mats", which are foil covered. Best of both worlds?
 
Rog Tallbloke

Rog Tallbloke

Thru Hiker
What you said is partly correct:
" the NeoAir works in part by reflecting IR back to you"
But "it seems to me that the CCF might block that." would only be a downside if the mattress could return more than you were losing (like the IPCC NASA chicken oven).

You're better off blocking most of the loss with CCF than recovering some of the loss with reflected IR.
 
Bopdude

Bopdude

Thru Hiker
I watch quiet a bit of Erik Normark on YouTube, lots of cold weather camping and was surprised that he was putting his CCF mat on top of his inflatable, reading comments here and knowing his understanding of cold camping I'll buy into it, next time I'm in the cold that is ???
 
WilliamC

WilliamC

Thru Hiker
Rog Tallbloke said:
...would only be a downside if the mattress could return more than you were losing...
Click to expand...
I don't get this statement. It seems to me that the purpose of the mat reflecting back IR is to minimise the loss of heat due to radiation, not to actually make you warmer. If it could reflect 100% of the IR back to you, there would be no heat loss from radiation. The less of that IR that reaches back to you, the more warmth you're losing.
If the mat can reflect 99% (for the sake of argument) of your irradiated IR, you'd be losing almost know heat through radiation, though you would still be losing some by conduction and convection. If the CCF absorbed 25% (again for the sake of argument) of that reflected IR, you'd be losing ca 25% of your irradiated heat, as opposed to 1%. The CCF mat would help to lessen heat lost to the ground by conduction and convection whether on top or bottom of the Neoair.

Not that this matters much, I've never felt cold through the mattress on a Neoair with the CCF underneath and it feels more comfortable that way.
 
Rog Tallbloke

Rog Tallbloke

Thru Hiker
Hi William, the physics of heat transfer is quite complex, and it's easy for misunderstandings to arise when discussing it in laymans terms, so forgive me for creating confusion with my humorous cartoon and the subsequent comment.

In practical terms for backpackers, ccf under the mattress is the usual way, because it protects the air mattress from prickly objects on the ground, and slips around less. In heat transfer terms it slows down conductive loss from your body by reducing the rate of energy flow from air mat to ground. An appreciable amount of heat does conduct and radiate out of the mattress sides however, which is why Erik Normark goes for ccf on top, as @Bopdude reports. By putting the ccf on top, Erik is reducing the rate of body heat loss into the air mattress. The IR reflectivity will still help reduce losses through the mattress to the ground, but won't assist with conductive/convective losses through the sides, which will be more rapid with ccf under than over. Does that make more sense?
 
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Franky

Franky

Section Hiker
After failure of a new STS Etherlite mat on the first night of a 30 day trail, a very nice American guy cut his spare CCF mat in half for me.

Every night I Inflated the failed Etherlite and it would always deflate to leave a measly 25% air in. With the CCF on top I’ve had the warmest nights sleeps.
Always use a variety of CCF or relective blankets on top of a short traditional self inflating mat now.

After using every sort of lightweight inflating mats I can only sleep on a more traditional but super silent base now
 
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Franky

Franky

Section Hiker
Bopdude said:
I watch quiet a bit of Erik Normark on YouTube, lots of cold weather camping and was surprised that he was putting his CCF mat on top of his inflatable, reading comments here and knowing his understanding of cold camping I'll buy into it, next time I'm in the cold that is ???
Click to expand...

I love Erik;):rolleyes:
 
Franky

Franky

Section Hiker
Now I know I prefer hardish surfaces to sleep on, am playing about with cheapo’ mat combinations on lockdown day walks.

Like Tom has done above.:tongue:

Bought the Short Nemo Switchback
That mat on next ‘Post Lockdown’ extended trip will not let me down other than ‘getting nicked’:rolleyes:.
Bulky yes but not an issue.
The Range sell seemingly the most basic and very thin reflective picnic blanket.
Could double up:)

Aliexpress offer single and double thicker versions...( no more buying there any more as loathe pre Tibetan issue and now the Uighur. Should have had a conscience years ago but....)

Post Lockdown, the combinations will be experimented with on continual overnight camps.
 
Nevis

Nevis

Thru Hiker
How do you manage to keep the CCF mat on top of the pad? I tried it once and every time I rolled over it would slide off the mat :(
 
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