Sleeping mat woes

Lemming

Trail Blazer
I do not know if this is age related, but I am having problems finding something that works for me.

I am old enough to remember when Karrimats were introduced and happily used them for years, then was seduced by the increased comfort of Therm-a-Rest self inflating mats (although my notes record that a Karrimat was warmer in winter).

More recently I moved to inflatable insulated mats and was quite happy, but from this winter I have started to constantly fall off them, waking up cold far too early.
Initially, I suspected that this was due to using mummy shaped mats, so tried a Nemo Tensor Extreme regular shaped mat. No improvement!

I have tried using a mat inside a bivvy, but the result is that I still end up with the mat on its side - and that's using a Katabatic bivvy with cords to keep the mat in place.

Currently I am trying a Nemo Long Wide, but I am yet to be convinced that I will stay on it (I briefly had an Exped LW Downmat, but no time to test it properly, as it was shredded by the the furry lump to the left - entirely my fault as I had not shut a door properly).

I think that the problem is that I roll around a lot when asleep, so end up on one side of the mat, which is then compressed and squeezed away from my body.

The search for a good nights sleep is becoming expensive - anyone with any good ideas?

Possibly a self inflating mat on top of thin CCF may be the way to go - not so high and slightly more difficult to compress.

Watch out for a Nemo Tensor Extreme LW appearing for sale soon...
 

Patrick

Ultralighter
I haven't had this problem, but wondered if experimenting with the hardness of the mat might be fruitful. I tend to have mine quite soft, so I'm in a hollow in the middle of the mat, which I find more comfy. My gut feeling is that that makes me less likely to roll off as well, though I could be wrong. Either way, you might find comparing a night with it blown up as hard as you can tolerate and a night with it deflated until you're nearly touching the ground a useful comparison - my guess is your probably less likely to roll off one than the other.
 

old-skool-lite

Thru Hiker
My TAR Prolite I can have blown up fully. The exped, which I think I got from you needs to be partiality inflated. To the extent my knees or elbows bottom out when moving around the tent but not when laying down
 
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Alfie

Ultralighter
I use a Mountain Equipment aerostat synthetic 7.0.
Very comfortable never fallen off.
 

Corvair

Ultralighter
Stuff clothes/whatever along the side margins...can create a little hollow in your mat; it doesn't take much.
Yep, I tend to do this with my regular width mats to stop wandering limbs hitting the cold floor. Already carrying stuff so might as well put it to a second or third use when sleeping.
 

echo8876

Thru Hiker
I'm a tall overweight man, and i've (or my elbows) yet to fall off x-therm MAX, or have any issues with it at all.
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2 thermarest XTherms blew out on me- I have no faith in them.

So have gone back to 3/4 length self inflating mats.

The alpkit airo is still working but at 450grms a bit of a lump for what it is - served me well cycling in Norway.

Had a Ven 2.5 (280grms)for a year - that too blew out.

Pondering an SI multimat superlite at 350grms. 37 quid.

Problem is they **** up in the most inconvenient of places.

I'd go for a zlite but it's such an awkward shape to carry around. It'll also ruin the lovely lines of my nifty little pack. Such things have become seemingly important.. 🧐 (old twerp transformation complete)
 
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Jshdudhwodj

Section Hiker
2 thermarest XTherms blew out on me- I have no faith in them.

So have gone back to 3/4 length self inflating mats.

The alpkit airo is still working but at 450grms a bit of a lump for what it is - served me well cycling in Norway.

Had a Ven 2.5 (280grms)for a year - that too blew out.

Pondering an SI multimat superlite at 350grms. 37 quid.

Problem is they **** up in the most inconvenient of places.

I'd go for a zlite but it's such an awkward shape to carry around. It'll also ruin the lovely lines of my nifty little pack. Such things have become seemingly important.. 🧐 (old twirp transformation complete)
Really? I have an xtherm and touch wood been ok, it's the newer version which is 50% less crisp packet than the original, the xped has been one of the better ones I've had tbh but I do like the width of the xtherm large
 

JRT

Ultralighter
Sounds like you might benefit from a sleeping bag with a pad sleeve to keep it in place.
 

Kef9

Backpacker
Are you bothered about how much a mat weighs? The reason I ask is because there are a number of suitable mats that I own and can advise on (some are heavy) which could be the solution to your problem. It all depends on how much space you have in the tent? Not withstanding the fact that the forum is called trek-lite 🤣
 

Lemming

Trail Blazer
I am not too bothered about weight, as a good nights sleep is important.

I have been experimenting (at home) with a full length CCF mat and an ancient Multimat 1" thick ¾ length self inflating mat and so far have stayed on them. Combination is 551g with an R value of 3.5, which is slightly less than I would like for winter, but it is certainly a step in the right direction.

An Exped rectangular mat may be worth a try next, with the slightly larger side tubes, but I regularly rolled off the mummy versions, so may not work for me.

This is very frustrating, as until this winter I have never had a problem sleeping!
 

Kef9

Backpacker
Okay you definitely need a wide mat. From experience my absolute comfiest and also most heavy (unfortunately 1.3kg) mat is my sea to summit comfort plus xt. The weight is offset somewhat by the fact that you don’t need a CCF mat as backup due to the dual layer design. It’s also slightly wider than a normal wide mat but you can tell. It feels like sleeping at home to be honest. You fully pump up the bottom layer and then adjust the air in the top layer for comfort. No rolling off this one. Interestingly Paul Messner uses the single layer version for his camps due to the comfort so he would love this. This is my go to winter mat and it’s nice and warm.

next best is my extra wide (75cm) Big Agnes Q Core Deluxe (now called Boundary Deluxe). This has raised sides to stop you rolling off. Really wide and nice and long.

Next up equally are the Big Agnes Rapide and Thermarest Topo Luxe. The Rapide is virtually the same pad as the Q Core but lighter and not as plush. I’m 5’10”and my feet hang off the bottom of the regular length so go long. The Thermarest is 4” thick so with that you have to let a lot of air out to get it right so that you are effectively sunk in it so it cradles you. You can get this 65 and 75cm wide.

I also have a X-lite NXT and a tensor also but they just don’t compare really in terms of comfort but they are a lot lighter!
 

Jshdudhwodj

Section Hiker
Think you need to pick an r value you want, then comfort

The xtherm I have is 7.2 it's the long wide mummy. Is 570g

The next closest to it would be the BA rapide long wide 692g but only 4.8r

The other style would be dimples like the Nemo

The ba zoom 536g 4.3r
 

echo8876

Thru Hiker
In truth r value is highly, strongly overrated.
people slept on double ridgerests or karrimats at 7000m long before inflating or self inflating pads and were just fine (mostly). and still do.
The funniest part about modern outdoor sleeping system marketing is how r value being a king, while sleeping bags are sold by limit temps casually.
 

old-skool-lite

Thru Hiker
truth r value is highly, strongly overrated.
people slept on double ridgerests or karrimats at 7000m long before inflating or self inflating pads and were just fine (mostly). and still do.

Me & my buddy have used single ridgerests & 4 season multimats on snow & ice no problem. R value & closed cell foam is a puzzle to me. I'd still use in winter if my hip didn't give me jip. Hopefully one day I can back to it. Under 200g & I don't feel like the princess & the pea.
 
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echo8876

Thru Hiker
Me & my buddy have used single ridgerests & 4 season multimats on snow & ice no problem. R value & closed cell foam is a puzzle to me. I'd still use in winter if my hip didn't move me jip. Hopefully one day I can back to it. Under 200g & I don't feel like the princess & the pea.
just dig a little pit in snow under your mat to accomodate your hip
 

Lemming

Trail Blazer
Many thanks Kef9.
I have a Nemo Extreme LW to try, but have not yet used it. Fingers are crossed!

I fully agree with the comments on closed cell mats - a couple of years ago I did a side by side test, with half the night on an R1.3 CCF mat and the other half on a self inflating mat rated at R3.something. At -10ºC both felt equally cold after two hours (the sleeping bag used was at its limit temperature). The SIM mat was most certainly not over twice as warm.
The coldest recorded temperature that I have (happily) slept on a single CCF mat is -17ºC, although I was younger and fitter then.

Also, I am not fully convinced by the high R values of mats that consist only of air and reflective film. Tested fully inflated with even pressure over the whole area is one thing, used at a lower pressure (for comfort) and different bits of the body poking unequally downwards is not the same. I feel happier with mats that have insulation inside them. No evidence to back this up, just my feeling.

The 89g for a 3mm CCF mat is well worth it for me, not only as an insurance policy (folded in half it is about R0.8, much better than nothing), but also to stop the inflatable mat slipping around. For serious cold (ie: not Scottish winter), I'd take a 12mm CCF pad as the backup.
 
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