CleanSimon
Trekker
So we all try to get super light sleeping bags but carry a down jacket too. Surely some down trousers and booties to go with the jacket would be lighter and cover better than a down bag would? Anyone already tried this?
Silly question probably, but for UL wouldnt down trousers make more sense than bags?
- Thread starter CleanSimon
- Start date
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
@Chiseller is your uberlight man
Mole
Thru Hiker
Try it?
But do you not think such a simple concept would have taken off ages ago if it really worked well?
In the same way mittens are warmer than gloves, I think a bag or quilt is warmer than just clothing of similar weight.
As a supplement to a light quilt/bag, clothing works well, as it can be used in camp too. But as standalone. Well, as I wrote above, surely it would be a widespread thing already if it was viable?
I did read a blog of a young fit guy who used PhD down clothing and a Neoair xtherm plus Alpkit Bivi bag instead of a sleeping bag/quilt as his sleep gear in London whilst living a minimalist life. But not sure how long he kept it up for as his blog stopped. (Edit: there's a film interview of him on Vimeo some years back. He was using a sleeping bag then)
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Robert P
Thru Hiker
The pied d'elephant sleeping bag concept is based on this idea - bottom half insulated sleeping bag, top half use an insulated jacket. I have an old Alpkit bag of this design but it may be 10 years since I used it, which must say something. I'm not convinced it is more efficient / much lighter in the end. You'd probably need a much warmer down jacket to be comfortable than you'd want to use otherwise. As others have commented a sleeping bag would trap air more efficiently. There's some comments on the pied d'elephant here from Andy Kirkpatrick:
https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/pied-delephant
CleanSimon
Trekker
Thank you all for sharing your wisdom on this! Bag will stay 
There's quite a few ultra racing bike folk who use down clothing and a bivvy bag/vbl liner as a sleep system, but those guys are grabbing minimal shut eye over the course of an event, I suppose if you were in that (ultra misery ) mindset for hiking then why not.
) mindset for hiking then why not.
The Yank
Trail Blazer
It's the extra shell weights of the worn items that ends up making it all heavier than a bag with a comparable amount of warmth. More total surface area when you add it all up. Granted if you choose down pants, booties, jackets and other worn items with 7d or 10d shells then it does become closer to being as efficient as the bag, but there's just something about the way a hooded bag traps warmth, at least if it's the right size, fill weight/quality and features a draft tube. Quilts with poncho head slots allow for the dual function of warmth sitting around camp and for sleeping.
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Gneiss Boots
Trail Blazer
Not quite Ultralight but Buffalo sleeping bags marketed this too. You could leave the inner bag behind and wear buffalo clothing to same effect. As with other options here it was probably not comfortable but if needs must...
There's quite a few ultra racing bike folk who use down clothing and a bivvy bag/vbl liner as a sleep system, but those guys are grabbing minimal shut eye over the course of an event, I suppose if you were in that (ultra misery
This got me thinking last night, I wonder if the reason they do this is because it's easier to pack separate down trousers and jacket on a bike with limited storage capacity, rather than one lump of sleeping bag/quilt.
EM-Chiseller
Thru Hiker
There's a reason omm did the raid pant in a style that creates a bag. They wouldn't be as effective for the low weight if slept in whilst still in pant form.
I wouldn't sleep in down trousers in a bivi without a bag... The down would compress and its a big ask regarding condensation levels as there will be more dead space inside the bivi for the escaped heat to condensate.
Ata push I'd use down pants with waterproof over trousers.
This is another reason I sold my cumulus pant and opted for the synthetic raid pant, apex booties and heavier primaloft Crosscore insulated Barrage jacket that has a waterproof shell that attaches to the raid pant when in half bag form.
I only use the combination for fastpacking or stupid light, when I'm only aiming at 4-6hrs sleep.
I wouldn't sleep in down trousers in a bivi without a bag... The down would compress and its a big ask regarding condensation levels as there will be more dead space inside the bivi for the escaped heat to condensate.
Ata push I'd use down pants with waterproof over trousers.
This is another reason I sold my cumulus pant and opted for the synthetic raid pant, apex booties and heavier primaloft Crosscore insulated Barrage jacket that has a waterproof shell that attaches to the raid pant when in half bag form.
I only use the combination for fastpacking or stupid light, when I'm only aiming at 4-6hrs sleep.
Bmblbzzz
Thru Hiker
Yebbut some of them are happy to sleep on a roll of bubblewrap in a bus shelter!There's quite a few ultra racing bike folk who use down clothing and a bivvy bag/vbl liner as a sleep system, but those guys are grabbing minimal shut eye over the course of an event, I suppose if you were in that (ultra misery
kvragu
Ultralighter
More civilised than sleeping in a bush I'll have you know
I’m sorry but this may come across as controversial and I mean it in no way confrontational but why would you even want to consider it? Even if there was only a small reduction in sleeping comfort Is the need to shave a few 100 grams from a carrying weight absolutely that necessary? I for one wouldn’t have a clue if my water bottle had 700ml of water in it or a litre whilst carrying it all day.
Appreciate if you’re racing and already a finely tuned athlete then marginal gains matter but do they really mater that much to average joe hill Walker?
Appreciate if you’re racing and already a finely tuned athlete then marginal gains matter but do they really mater that much to average joe hill Walker?
Michael_x
Section Hiker
Off topic (sleeping mats) but, last time I slept at a bus stop a roll of bubble wrap for the concrete bench would have been sheer luxury.
kvragu
Ultralighter
I didn't try it (ordered the naturehike half bag but it got lost and by the time i was eligible for a refund they ran out of stock), but I can explain my reasoning for it. Sleeping kit is almost luxury on audaxes and I guess ultras. It's less of a 'oh I need to get some sleep' and more of a 'I have an hour to spare and can't hold my head up'. So the default is not a bag or a quilt but a bivvy or a liner or two. A couple 100s of grams, or even a kg or two really won't make any difference, but I think it comes down to the culture and packability. I don't love the way my bike feels when it's fully loaded, and aero penalties are actually noticeable. I'm not quick enough for it to matter, but it's way more fun riding with less stuff. And then there's the fun of getting away with carrying as little as possible on top of that.
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Bmblbzzz
Thru Hiker
Depends on the other uses of the bus shelter...
kvragu
Ultralighter
I guess unbecoming things can and have happened in both
WilliamC
Thru Hiker
I saw a link to this review, which reminded me of this thread.
You might have to be a member to read it so here's the conclusion:
You might have to be a member to read it so here's the conclusion:
"Of the approximately 70 sleeping bags I’ve used, the Patagonia Hybrid is by far the best for one specific application: if you’re climbing a technical route with a down parka and will sleep on a small ledge where you can’t pitch a tent. The foot box is extra large for sleeping with climbing boots on, the interior Houdini fabric has a high tear strength in case a boot lace-hook snags on the fabric, and the uninsulated upper h
I do not recommend the Hybrid bag for backpacking. It is extremely specialized for climbers utilizing a weather window to sleep on small ledges not conducive for pitching a tent. If the route has ledges or snow features large enough to pitch a tent, I have found that I’m warmer and more comfortable with either a quilt sleeping bag, sharing a mummy bag with my climbing partner, or (my favorite) using a two-person sleeping bag."
I do not recommend the Hybrid bag for backpacking. It is extremely specialized for climbers utilizing a weather window to sleep on small ledges not conducive for pitching a tent. If the route has ledges or snow features large enough to pitch a tent, I have found that I’m warmer and more comfortable with either a quilt sleeping bag, sharing a mummy bag with my climbing partner, or (my favorite) using a two-person sleeping bag."
CleanSimon
Trekker
No to your average walker it would definitely not matter, totally agree just seemed a logical theory : )