How does Paramo work?

[old-skool-lite]

I had a good chat with a chap at Paramo a while ago who was super-helpful and suggested TX Direct wash-in on everything Paramo,

While I rate the company & after sales service I've come across duff info from staff a couple of times. I can't remember the detail of one instance but one was being told dry cleaning would ruin a jacket. Its actually recommended if garment is particularly dirty followed by conventional wash & proof.

It is worth considering Cioch if standard Paramo items don't fit well and / or you want any customisation. I dropped in to the shop when I was on Skye to get measured. The price isn't that different from off-the-shelf Paramo.

Something I'm likely to treat myself too in next couple of years.

With regard to fleece & windproof combo effectiveness. I found the Summit fleece hoody & Fuera windproof jacket and excellent winter combo. Both had large pit zips. Preferred that combo to the Bentu setup for more active use. The old Tiaga fleece with the older Fuera windproof was good too, especially as the fleece itself was virtually waterproof. Still use mine a lot in winter on local day walks.

Always found the lightweight adventure stuff okay for 2 day trips but if worn for a wet week could let me down by the end. Definitely needed a lot of treating.

 

[Bmblbzzz]

I like Paramo a lot. I've been wearing it for about five years now. I was sceptical for a long time but eventually persuaded to try it by a cycling friend's enthusiasm (I don't think they make anything suitable for cycling now, but they used to). It's expensive but if you shop around you can find it at prices no higher than similar quality membrane jackets (I bought mine from a place in Sheffield).

I appreciate that it's not technically waterproof but it certainly keeps the rain out and it's also more breathable than anything else which does the same job (that I've ever tried). It's a jacket I'll wear all day in winter, it keeps the rain out but doesn't overheat too much when the rain stops, unlike some others. But I wouldn't ever wear it in summer.

The downsides people mention are ones I've found too; it's heavy and bulky, primarily, definitely one for taking off and stuffing in your backpack – but also there's no need to, once on, it stays on all day – and the arms are weirdly "wafty" as Shewie said. I've been told this is a feature to keep your hands warm, but I'd rather just put on a pair of gloves if needed.

In addition to the waterproof, which apparently is a Helki (don't think that's a current model), I have a windproof plus fleece. The windproof is showerproof but wets right through in heavy rain. They say that wearing a fleece underneath makes it fully waterproof (or as waterproof as the waterproof coats) but in my experience it doesn't work; you just get a soggy fleece.

One aspect which I don't think has been mentioned – maybe it's not important to people, maybe it doesn't quite fit the more technical discussion of the thread, maybe people are sceptical of it – is the company's ethical credentials or claims. Both in never having used PFAS and, more importantly IMO, the employment conditions and employee ownership.

And I'll just repeat that for me it's an all-day jacket: worn from late autumn to early spring, when I can put it on expecting rain but just leave it on whatever the weather's doing. In summer and warmer spring, when I wouldn't wear a waterproof except when it's actively raining, I still take a membrane jacket.

 

[Bmblbzzz]

And to address the original question of how it works - I don't know. I've always assumed the "pump liner" is some sort of sophisticated micro-pile. Certainly it can't be magic! Someone must have cut one open and looked inside?

 

[Robert P]

Someone must have cut one open and looked inside?

Yes, I've looked at the pump liner fabric. It has a tightly woven shiny surface that is visible (the contact surface for under layers), and the side facing the outer windproof layer has a 'furry' surface. I presume that moisture spreads out on the shiny woven surface and wicks / is pulled through to the furry surface. I've described the standard pump liner, though I am aware there are some variants that may look a little different.

Edit: I looked into buying some pump liner to make some mitts but it doesn't seem to be available to consumers as far as I can see. I hope to get some from retired garments, and should have done so from my discarded old Cascada trousers!

 

[Lyrrad]

Yes, I've looked at the pump liner fabric. It has a tightly woven shiny surface that is visible (the contact surface for under layers), and the side facing the outer windproof layer has a 'furry' surface. I presume that moisture spreads out on the shiny woven surface and wicks / is pulled through to the furry surface. I've described the standard pump liner, though I am aware there are some variants that may look a little different.

Edit: I looked into buying some pump liner to make some mitts but it doesn't seem to be available to consumers as far as I can see. I hope to get some from retired garments, and should have done so from my discarded old Cascada trousers!

I wonder if it may be worth reaching out to the Paramo recycling scheme to see if there is any way to get material that is due to be recycled rather than being sold as is

 

[Robert P]

I wonder if it may be worth reaching out to the Paramo recycling scheme to see if there is any way to get material that is due to be recycled rather than being sold as is

Good point. I may try to contact their store at Wadhurst (their HQ) and see what they say. They do repairs so might even be worth asking about buying a some new pump liner.

 

[Jim_Parkin]

And to address the original question of how it works - I don't know. I've always assumed the "pump liner" is some sort of sophisticated micro-pile. Certainly it can't be magic! Someone must have cut one open and looked inside?

It's capillary action as far as I understand. Almost there reverse of the fibre pile in Buffalo, I think.

---

I was on a walk with friends from Edale to Chinley on Sunday (for a friend's 50th). The weather was pretty grim. Driving rain, sleet and hail for most of the time.

It was looking grim enough that I decided to wear my 1992 Cascada trousers. And my Velez smock ( from about 2008). I stayed dry, but someone who'd just got her second new Velez smock had it fail. She had just sent it back for reproofing, so she's not impressed.

I guess that they have lightened the materials, and it's less effective against driving rain now.

 

[Jim_Parkin]

I no longer wash dwr in. I always spray. Several times between washes.  I don't want to be 'proofing' both sides of the coat.

I think with paramo you really need to. My understanding is that the pump liner needs to be be hydrophobic to work.

 

[Run_Hike_Meat_Repeat]

Is it keela? That use or did use a nikwax pump liner in some of their garments?

 

[Jim_Parkin]

Is it keela? That use or did use a nikwax pump liner in some of their garments?

Keela don't use pump liners as far as I understand.. they do have a their own proprietary system which seems to be to keep moisture between the two layers of their waterproofs.

I am aware of two Scottish manufacturers that use the pump liner. Cioch and Hilltrek.

Hilltrek uses a pump liner with a ventile shell, which, I imagine would make normal paramo seem lightweight and cool, but I guess that would resolve problems with driving rain

 

[Jim_Parkin]

Keela don't use pump liners as far as I understand.. they do have a their own proprietary system which seems to be to keep moisture between the two layers of their waterproofs.

I am aware of two Scottish manufacturers that use the pump liner. Cioch and Hilltrek.

Hilltrek uses a pump liner with a ventile shell, which, I imagine would make normal paramo seem lightweight and cool, but I guess that would resolve problems with driving rain

System Dual Protection

keelaoutdoors.com

 

[Jim_Parkin]

but someone who'd just got her second new Velez smock had it fail. She had just sent it back for reproofing, so she's not impressed

We have both been testing our waterproofs pretty severely the last two months, with a couple of very wet events with the Explorers, although as I was standing still in the rain for several hours in those two, I was using a longer coat (Keela Falkland) most of the time. I was damp with that coat but not wet.

My friend has recently passed her final rest for the local mountain rescue team and there was a really nice photo of her with her dad, who's now in the support team at base, and who's been with them since 1971.