Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Get a pair from Sportpursuit or ebay first and test them before buying an expensive pair. You can always resell them. I've sold many pairs on ebay. Vivos don't really work for me, but Xeros do as they a bit different shape.
Barefoot & Minimalist Footwear Thread
- Thread starter Odd Man
- Start date
Get a pair from Sportpursuit or ebay first and test them before buying an expensive pair. You can always resell them. I've sold many pairs on ebay. Vivos don't really work for me, but Xeros do as they a bit different shape.
Taz38
Thru Hiker
Yes same here, I've got 3 pairs of LPs mids (one was a replacement), all 3 have the same tearing of the fabric by the big toe. I'm about to try to repair them with shoe goo and some repair material. I do like them, they are very comfy and fit me well. But the quality (on the the old LPs) is below par and the tread is rubbish on wet ground.I like altra, but the quality is shocking,
I had a pair of lonepeak split, and now the replacement set are going on the heel padding, not 3 months old.
The heel inside fabric on my Timps is worn through after several months of dog walking. Still perfectly wearable but not good at all.
Despite all that I'm still wearing Altras, hoping their quality will improve with newer models.
Honestly if people are wearing Altras everyday for dog walking or similar then I’m not surprised they’re wearing out.
It is pretty widely reported that Altras don’t have a great lifespan - Altra themselves say 300-600 miles.
I’d expect them to show signs of wear well before the end of their life.
My current pair of LP6s had some of the decoration starting to peel off pretty much from new (that didn’t affect the use of the shoes) and after a TGO I’m not sure I’d use them for another crossing though I’ll continue to use them until they either fall to pieces or have no sole grip left. I don’t find the grip to be too much of an issue though they’re obviously not as a good as some proper fell shoes with deeper treads.
It is pretty widely reported that Altras don’t have a great lifespan - Altra themselves say 300-600 miles.
I’d expect them to show signs of wear well before the end of their life.
My current pair of LP6s had some of the decoration starting to peel off pretty much from new (that didn’t affect the use of the shoes) and after a TGO I’m not sure I’d use them for another crossing though I’ll continue to use them until they either fall to pieces or have no sole grip left. I don’t find the grip to be too much of an issue though they’re obviously not as a good as some proper fell shoes with deeper treads.
Slowwalker
Ultralighter
Well I actually gave my Racquas a try yesterday as I was walking the (slightly) boggy bit of the Peak District.
They were great for the job I got them for, wet walking, and were just as good going through broken and over rocky areas in between. What they weren’t great at was the defined stone trails links the previous areas. I felt every stone which slowed me down quite a bit, the soles of my feet got quite sore. I know that people say that your feet get used to them but my feet are soft and would not get used to them as my barefoot shoe.
A shame as they felt lovely and stable apart from that.
They were great for the job I got them for, wet walking, and were just as good going through broken and over rocky areas in between. What they weren’t great at was the defined stone trails links the previous areas. I felt every stone which slowed me down quite a bit, the soles of my feet got quite sore. I know that people say that your feet get used to them but my feet are soft and would not get used to them as my barefoot shoe.
A shame as they felt lovely and stable apart from that.
Taz38
Thru Hiker
Altra Olympus mids came today, They feel nice, fit well, might be keeping these. I also got the low version (trail) but I'll send these back, I really need boots for backpacking/hill walking. Maybe get Torin or Olympus Via (road) for everyday stuff. I'm wearing old Torins atm (for home and garden), these were second-hand when I got them but still quite comfy.
I got the Olympus mids at a sale price, looks like they've been tried on a bit. The problem with online buying and trying. I could have a day trip to Derby I suppose (The Derby Runner).
I got the Olympus mids at a sale price, looks like they've been tried on a bit. The problem with online buying and trying. I could have a day trip to Derby I suppose (The Derby Runner).
Taz38
Thru Hiker
That's what I found with the Freet boot, I'm too old for barefoot I think (and too 'fat' lol).
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
I'm fatter than you (not sure about the age, but I'm past 50) and I'm ok with natural shoes, probably because I've been wearing them maybe 15 years. However, there are differences. Many natural shoes have very thin soles, which are fine for many, but not all. I just bought Xero Rambler Lows, which have a Michelin sole and it's thicker than their standard sole on Mesa Trail & Terraflex, or their non-hiking shoes. When I wear their casual shoes and I step on a stone on a pavement, it can be uncomfortable, but with the Rambler I felt the stone, but it didn't hurt. Rambler doesn't have more cushioning, but more protection against sharp/pokey things. I think there are differences between the protection with different shoes/soles, without losing the barefoot feel/benefit.
Taz38
Thru Hiker
After pottering a little indoors at home in the Olympus hike 5 mids, I'll regretfully have to send these back. The seam in the ankle really digs in after a bit (even with added padding) and reading the reviews (again) shows it's a common enough issue and one that results in bruises/soreness. A great boot ruined by bad design in one small area, or possible quality control as the left boot was fine. Hopefully the '6' will be an improved version. So I might be keeping the low version after all, which seem quite comfortable atm. We'll see. Just as well I can't walk more than 3 miles atm.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
I find them better than Mesa Trail 2s. They fit (me) better, the sole is a bit stiffer, which means stones & roots won't feel as much as with Xero regular sole. I did our SWCP hike in them and didn't have any issues and my feet felt great. I thinking of getting the WP Hi tops for winter.
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@Odd Man - Before I order some, can I ask you to check if the scramblers are as wide as the trail 2s. I recently ordered a different pair of xeros to discover they weren't as wide as the trail 2s.
Thanks.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Do you mean the sole width or internal volume, as they are two different things? Thicker Xeros like Terraflex feel smaller inside compared to Mesa Trails, for example.
FYA: https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/3893053
Craig
Summit Camper
Thoughts appreciated, please excuse long post! Zero drop wearer, possible too rapid transition couple of years ago set off chronic Plantar Fasciitis (suspect asymmetric Altra heel foam compression may have affected pronation). Now several years of chronic unilateral heel pain. Regular exercises + physio and advice on here (thanks Odd Man) have helped, but the biggest improvement has come with barefoot running on grass - no pain while running, obviously much more of a forefoot gait. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9741467/
I still get Plantar F type heel pain walking distances in my selection of zero drop shoes and boots which I always use an orthortic in. The orthotic is firmish foam with arch support and cushioned heel cup. Tried a few similar types. A week ago I was feeling fed up as I'm due to do a multi day walk starting next week and was preparing to put up with the pain. Set me thinking that if I can run barefoot without pain why don't I remove the orthotic and make my footwear as minimalist and as close to barefoot as possible while acknowledging running and walking biomechanics are different. Surprisingly the pain reduced. But still some. Then I noted that footwear with an intrinsic heel cup like shape, as in my Freet Mudee 2 (Mudee 1's OK) or just soft foam in the heel area was still causing pain.
Paradoxically the most pain free option is a firm flat inside heel area as in my Xero's and Vivo's. Trying to work out why a curved heel cup +/- foam should cause pain? Is there some kind of compressive effect from the cup and does the base of the heel actually want to be flat when loaded to distribute force more evenly? Guess this may just be a problem particular to me, but for now I am glad I have ditched the orthotics and heel cup/foam. Now planning to walk in my Xero Mesa 2's but wonder how my forefoot/metatarsals will respond to the lack of padding!
I still get Plantar F type heel pain walking distances in my selection of zero drop shoes and boots which I always use an orthortic in. The orthotic is firmish foam with arch support and cushioned heel cup. Tried a few similar types. A week ago I was feeling fed up as I'm due to do a multi day walk starting next week and was preparing to put up with the pain. Set me thinking that if I can run barefoot without pain why don't I remove the orthotic and make my footwear as minimalist and as close to barefoot as possible while acknowledging running and walking biomechanics are different. Surprisingly the pain reduced. But still some. Then I noted that footwear with an intrinsic heel cup like shape, as in my Freet Mudee 2 (Mudee 1's OK) or just soft foam in the heel area was still causing pain.
Paradoxically the most pain free option is a firm flat inside heel area as in my Xero's and Vivo's. Trying to work out why a curved heel cup +/- foam should cause pain? Is there some kind of compressive effect from the cup and does the base of the heel actually want to be flat when loaded to distribute force more evenly? Guess this may just be a problem particular to me, but for now I am glad I have ditched the orthotics and heel cup/foam. Now planning to walk in my Xero Mesa 2's but wonder how my forefoot/metatarsals will respond to the lack of padding!
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
How long is your stride? Most people with 'normal' shoes have longer stride, which makes them heel strike and that's cushioned by the 'normal' shoe. With natural shoes, the stride needs to be shorter, so you land on your mid/forefoot, where the foot movement can adapt to the surface unlike with a heel strike, as the heel just has a small fat pad & skin (think stepping on a lego with your heel).
Overstriding can also lead to heel to slide inside the shoe and that slide can aggravate the fat pad or pull the achilles tendon & fascia causin pain in the back of the heel.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Looks like Scrambler has wider sole in the middle compared to Mesa Trail II, and MTII has higher volume overall, as I need to cinch them tighter and have more creasing around the laces.
Sorry, I kept forgetting to compare them.
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
Sounds like you're doing things right.
Optimal stride length is very personal due to length of levers. If you land on midfoot / forefoot comfortably, and you can keep a steady pace for extended duration without getting overly exhausted (this means you're using fascial recoil mechanism / kinetic energy, which can be up 70% more efficient than using muscles only), that's the optimal length for you.
I think Eric Orton has some technique videos for natural running, you just have to shift through some waffle on some videos. https://www.youtube.com/@BornToRunCoach/videos
Craig
Summit Camper
Now about 250 miles into the Camino Frances & the plantar fasciitis has resolved. Walking comfortably in a pair of Xero Terraflex, added a pair of thin Decathalon gel insoles to the regular Xero insole for a bit more padding. Keeping the days to about 25 km, shortened stride and 8 kg pack . If I hadn't ditched the orthotics I suspect I would still be in pain.
Given the large number of walkers on the route its a good opportunity to observe what's popular (plenty of faster walkers overtaking me!) Hokas are number 1, but I've seen frequent asymmetrical heel foam collapse issues leading to some concerning ankle positions and I suspect injury risks over the longer distance. Plenty of Altras in evidence and seen a few heel foam collapse issues, which I suspect contributed to my issue. Subjectively maybe heavier and or taller walkers are having more heel foam issues. I guess manufacturers optimise foam properties for average weight & height, outside of that & it risks foam distortion causing gait disturbance & increased injury ??
Given the large number of walkers on the route its a good opportunity to observe what's popular (plenty of faster walkers overtaking me!) Hokas are number 1, but I've seen frequent asymmetrical heel foam collapse issues leading to some concerning ankle positions and I suspect injury risks over the longer distance. Plenty of Altras in evidence and seen a few heel foam collapse issues, which I suspect contributed to my issue. Subjectively maybe heavier and or taller walkers are having more heel foam issues. I guess manufacturers optimise foam properties for average weight & height, outside of that & it risks foam distortion causing gait disturbance & increased injury ??
Odd Man
Thru Hiker
That's amazing to hear. You feet are clearly getting stronger.
I've owned a single pari of Altras, Superiors. They have/had the least cushioning available at the time. I used them for my urban walks while living in Brighton. Being taller & heavier, the midsole foam wore out much quicker than any other part of the shoe. I reckon it only took 100-150km. After that the comfortable 'bounce' was gone. I never wore the Altras on trail, for that I used Vivos and nowadays Xeros. Altras are now my garden/work shoes as the thicker sole catches cable clips better than minimalist shoes.
Ilovewalking
Backpacker
I have been wearing barefoot shoes for about a year now. I use merrell vapour glove for general use and for dry days on the hills. For the rain and mud I use Vivo Tracker Forest Escape. For distance hiking with my pack. Vivo magna forest escape. (Getting these on and off took some getting used to).
I found ashorter stride works better with barefootware but I believe if anything I walk faster. I tend to put the side of my foot down, roll onto the ball of the foot and push off hard with my toes. I wouldn’t swap back to normal shoes now. A side benefit is the great sense of balance I have when walking over rocks and uneven ground.
The Vivo boots do feel big but I wear them fairly tight around my ankles and my feet feel great. Never had a single blister with them. I do always use Compeed anti blister stick if doing a long hike.
Taz38
Thru Hiker
Bit of an update; I kept the Olympus boots and find them comfortable. A small piece of foam sorted the seam rubbing issue. I sold the Timps and ordered Torins for everyday and work wear. The added padding has helped I think.After pottering a little indoors at home in the Olympus hike 5 mids, I'll regretfully have to send these back. The seam in the ankle really digs in after a bit (even with added padding) and reading the reviews (again) shows it's a common enough issue and one that results in bruises/soreness. A great boot ruined by bad design in one small area, or possible quality control as the left boot was fine. Hopefully the '6' will be an improved version. So I might be keeping the low version after all, which seem quite comfortable atm. We'll see. Just as well I can't walk more than 3 miles atm.
Re my ongoing Plantar Fasciitis; I stopped faffing about and now only wear either Altra or Hoka recovery slides, I wear the same insoles in all my footwear. I do stretching and exercises daily, and rest/sleep with a resting splint. The splint has been a god-sent.
I'm also seeing a physio (NHS) but apart from getting a diagnosis, its not been that useful.
I walk no more than 2M a day (+ work) and 3M on days off (usually once a week). It's been almost pain free for weeks.
I very much think it was caused by overdoing it and not stretching the calf muscles properly (yoga is not enough!), my left calf (of the leg affected) is much tighter than the right. Lots of things going on there, it probably need a good physio to sort it al out lol. But I'm happy to be able to walk without pain.