Temp rating for 3 season England use

Discussion in 'Sleeping Bags & Quilts' started by Lempo, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    I have a EE Convert 20f -6 850fp (2017) quilt which I love, but as it's the XL/XW the weight is 900g. The sizing is based on EE's recommendations of my height and being a stomach sleeper.

    I run pretty warm when walking, but I've had times at when I've gotten really cold at the end of the day and the current quilt has been amazing to warm me up and keeping me comfy. I remember an autumn hike in the mountains in NZ, where it was very windy at the top and still wide areas of snow. We stayed in one of those tunnel huts. We had a stove running in the evening, but the fire ran out when we got to sleep. I remember waking up in the middle of the night freezing, but I zipped up and cinched down the ends of the quilt and breathed through the small hole and I was just fine. Another time we were camping in wet but not too cold weather, and the versatility of being able to open it up was great, as I was never too hot.

    IMG_2375.JPG

    If I was to get a second quilt for 3 season use in England/Wales/NI/Central & Southern Europe, would +5c be enough, or would be better to have 0c rated? I know it's all very subjective, but though I ask some experiences. In Nordics I'd know what to use.

    That and sizing down a bit, I could bring the weight down to about 600g which would be a decent weight saving. I do a Drop Pine quilt which is nice, but a bit short if it gets cooler.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  2. Peterbob67

    Peterbob67 Summit Camper

    That's a question I've been asking myself as well. It's difficult to answer... we all sleep so differently. I thought I was a warm sleeper and had one of the early EE 20ºF (-7ºC allegedly) quilts, did the TGO in 2016 using it and was very often cold... we did have some frosty nights, but I was cold on other nights too. It's made me over cautious and now I've no idea how I sleep. I've an over filled Loco Libra quilt which is great to say -10ºC, and was thinking of getting a cooler quilt, and going with this:

    https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revi...ltralight-sleeping-bag/therm-a-rest-vesper-32

    Temperature rating is 0ºC, weight is 440g... too good to be true?
    Lempo likes this.
  3. Teepee

    Teepee Thru Hiker

    Pack for the conditions and adjust for your personal preferences. Weather records are readily available for the areas you are likely to frequent.

    A ground frost can be had in any month of the year in the UK and we can often have conditions that chill you to the bone in the shoulder seasons. A few years ago, I camped out with a ground frost in every month of the year.

    I consider 0-3c comfort system as a good guide to UK 3 season packing.

    Using Scandinavian (sub arctic) conditions as synchronous to the UK is good guide for kit, but it'll likely be damper and windier.
    Robin and Lempo like this.
  4. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    I've no idea of Thermarest quilts, and haven't come across much comments or reviews either.

    Mine is also 20f 2017, meaning it's before the adjustment of their fill volume, meaning it's likely lightly underfilled but it was also cheaper. I thought that if I need warmer, I could always get an overquilt from V&P, but that would make the double quilt system probably 1400-1500g, which is a lot in UL world.

    Ideally I guess, would have new 2 quilts, one -12 950fp and another for +5 950fp to minimise extra weight, but that's an expensive decision. My current quilt was bought as all-in-one for multiple uses with lowest price (850fp) and most durable option (20d/10d) which add to the weight.
  5. Peterbob67

    Peterbob67 Summit Camper


    That's exactly my situation, one quilt to rule them all! But I can shave 200g off with the Thermarest for warmer weather, but then I might just end up freezing!!
  6. Patrick

    Patrick Trail Blazer

    It's gradually dawned on me that temperature ratings are for the bag / quilt used fully "cinched up" as you describe it. And I don't actually like sleeping with only my nose poking out of my sleeping bag. I can do if I need to, but I'm much comfier if I can move around a fair bit, stick arms out etc. As a result I use a bag rated to about -5 even though I rarely camp in temperatures as low as zero. So personally I'd go for something rated a good bit colder than I was expecting, but I accept that that is in a way because I don't use the bag in the way it's designed to be used.
    SteG and Lempo like this.
  7. Foxster

    Foxster Section Hiker

    All temp ratings are BS.

    The makers of bags and quilts do not stick to standards and make up any old numbers that will sell their gear.

    What you need to do is multiply weight of fill by fill-power and compare that number between bags/quilts.
    edh, Mole, Peterbob67 and 1 other person like this.
  8. Mole

    Mole Thru Hiker

    -5C always used to be a "3 season" bag in this country. (a min of 400g of good down)

    I'm hoping my 350 Cumulus quilt will do the same.

    -10 a 4 season bag (600g+ fill) ...
  9. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    I used my 350 quilt for first time last night. It's the first time ive used a quilt and was just left wondering if it's going to keep me warm at even the comfort rating. After reading everybodies high praise for them I had big expectations and felt a little deflated as it got a bit colder and I wasn't particularly feeling the warmth. I wore thin baselayer leggings and light Rab softshell top +xtherm. I'm a side sleeper and the side of my legs were cold where the down was migrating to the the front and back. Im going to have to give the straps a go now to see the difference.i was left wondering if I'm going to have to get heavier weight baselayers to make up the warmth or always have to use bivi, which defeats the object of going for the quilt in the first place. I do hope I am just overthinking it and it will be fine for most of autumn.I think a part of the problem is that I've been using a mountain hardware lamina for arse end of summer and up to winter and my other bag is a winter down bag, both mostly comfortable for me between the comfort and limit ratings. So nothing else to really compare it to.
  10. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    Do you know what the temp was?
  11. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    Well only by the forecast @Baldy about 13 degrees and modest breeze, was sheltered from wind.
  12. Baldy

    Baldy Thru Hiker

    The comfort limit is 2c :o o:.
    Not everybody has high praise for quilts, i wouldn't use one.

    The problem is now, you'll worry about being cold and carry the heavier base layers just in case.
    Maybe move the quilt on while it's only been used once and stick to what you know works?
    SteG and cathyjc like this.
  13. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    They are good points, but will need to try it a couple of more times and do things differently to be sure it's not for me. But yes the possibility of maybe having to sell it also crossed my mind. Im a bit of a restless sleeper so I thought a quilt would be ideal, but maybe this means the quilt will just lift up more and become draughty. I will try the straps and see how I get on. This will still give me a less constricted feeling of a sleeping bag. Something I don't mind when its proper cold but irritates me when it's warmer.
    Iain and Baldy like this.
  14. Iain

    Iain Trekker

    I'm surprised to hear that you were feeling the cold in a quilt 350 at 13c. I use the old style quilt 250 for the majority of the year and have been comfortable down to 2/3c with an xtherm and base layers.

    After about 18 months with the 250, I decided to swap my winter bag for a quilt and went for a custom 450 with 900fp down, which so far has been better than my previous Rab neutrino endurance 600 bag and almost half the weight.

    Definitely worth trying the quilt again to see how you get on.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    SteG likes this.
  15. dovidola

    dovidola Thru Hiker

    I'm also surprised you felt cold at 13C - I use a Cumulus 350 sleeping bag, invariably unzipped for its full length and used as a quilt, which theoretically makes it colder than a 350 quilt because the same quantity of down is spread over a larger area? I'm good for 5C that way, wearing a light baselayer and adding a light down hoody below 10C. NeoAir Xlite underneath.
    I'm hovering on the purchase of a Cumulus 350 quilt, simply because I've hardly ever used my bag as a bag in over 10 years, and because at 135g lighter it ought to be a bit warmer as well. I was even contemplating 'risking' a 250 (490g sounds sooo attractive) but I think that could prove a step too far.
    SteG likes this.
  16. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Everyone is different.

    A 350g sleeping bag is warm weather only for me.
    I need 500g+ for 3 season and 700g+ for 4 season (modestly cold) - and that's in a short bag. My hubby has 960g in his winter bag.

    I find there is a lot of "bragging" goes on in quoting just how little insulation is OK at 'X' temp - to stay warm.

    Sorry, but only experience will teach you what is right for you.
    Keep working at it, and maybe take some extra insulated clothing so you have "fall back" options :thumbsup:.
    Diddi, Snowonher and SteG like this.
  17. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    I have the same Rab bag for winter.i would love to think I could half the weight of that and the bulk.i will be going out again this week and try the quilt out. I'm wondering if it's something as simple as shaking the quilt and spreading the down out more evenly. I feel from the comments that it must be something about the way I'm using it or not using it rather than it not being warm enough.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  18. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    Good advice I do raise my eye brows when i hear what little fill power people use to manage stay warm in cold winters,but we are all different. I know I find it hard to warm up at first (during winter) but nearly alway end up taking off my base layers through over heating during the night , and only a few times woken back up to put them back on. I would not say i was a warm sleeper though,I'm not sure what I am. I'm just ok once I've warmed up,which can take ages.
  19. JRT

    JRT Backpacker

    I carry a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor liner for use under my quilt when temperatures drop unexpectedly. The quilt itself is a custom large three-season with 850fp weighing 550g. The liner adds optional warmth and comfort in colder weather, especially when the wind is up and draughts work their way under the quilt. It's surprising how much difference the Reactor liner actually makes - and it doesn't weigh much.
  20. WilliamC

    WilliamC Thru Hiker

    Several factors affect how warm you feel in the night, such as how much you've eaten, how tired you are etc. You can't know for sure if a quilt/bag is suitable from just one night.
    That said, 13 degrees isn't very cold so I would have expected a 350 quilt to be adequate.
    Edit: Did you wear anything on your head? That can make a big difference.
    cathyjc and SteG like this.
  21. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    Thanks @JRT I personally don't like liners,they get on my nerves a little bit. I ordered a mld superlight Bivi a while back to use in winter so I can put my pad inside, at the same time as cutting out the drafts. I used a sol escape Bivi last winter but it was just a little tight and I wished for a long side zipper. If this combo of Bivi and quilt are ok up till November with various clothing I will already be carrying, then I think I will be happy.
  22. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    Also a big meal can make a difference. I remember after a long day on trail not eating much, arrived to the huts, ate a meal and suddenly was freezing when all the extra blood rush to support digestion.
    SteG likes this.
  23. SteG

    SteG Ultralighter

    Yes I totally agree with you. It could of been one of many things,that's why I will give it a good test before I can say it doesn't work for me.yes had my head covered well and top half and feet werent cold. just my legs a little bit.
  24. Nevis

    Nevis Section Hiker

    I need about four extra layers on in the winter when i use my EE Revelation 20f !!! It’s just not up to the job. Last winter i had to double up with another quilt and it wasn’t even that cold a night.... saying that it could just be an age thing though :(
    SteG likes this.
  25. Lempo

    Lempo Thru Hiker

    Pre 2017 like my EE? They increased the fill since. One way to turn it into advantage is to get a V&P overquilt for winter which is more water resistant protecting the EE.

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