Discussion in 'Shopping' started by PhilHo, Jan 28, 2020.
Over 150 in a single sitting...
Liteway have a Black Friday sale BLKFRD
I have an Elementum DCF pack - love it. Crazy light and well made
Evgen is super helpful and responsive.
I'm sitting on the fence regarding an Apex 167 Liteway quilt. Can't decide if I prefer the lower price and head slot of the Liteway, or lighter weight of a GramXpert.
Anyone with a Liteway able to share experiences if the head slot is actually useful and they ended up wearing it round camp rather than packing another warm layer?
I'm thinking it could be a great way to save weight on bikepacking trips where pack space is very tight.
Does anyone make Apex quilts with an insulation bias? More at the lower end, and less at the top end? That could be paired with a lightish insulated jacket as a sleep system with equivalent bulk/weight maybe?
I'm pretty sure GramXpert would if you asked.
Liteway will do you one without a head slot at the same price. I contacted them and asked last year.
I've not worn mine at camp as it's not been cold enough to warrant it.
I do wear it over my head a lot at home... Saved a fortune on heating bills
Its a good way of venting some heat out, without removing the quilt when you've got the pad straps attached under your pad.
When I was going through options with Gramxpert, they were happy to do it. They price it as you buying the full quilt in the heavier insulation.
I'm sure Liteway would do it too, they seem very open to customisation. It's a nice idea. I think you could also make something substantially lighter/warmer by using a APEX67/100 layer for the entire quilt, with an additional layer of 100 above your body. Both layering and joining APEX pieces seems very easy as far as construction goes.
If it's good enough at home it must be good enough for camp.
Thank you, seems not worth leaving it off since you don't save any cost and not much weight. As an aside most of the extra weight of the Liteway comes from the use of 37-40g/m2 20D fabric. They are looking at using lighter 10-12d fabric which will save 80-100 grams but add circa 25-35% to the price.
Just in case useful for anyone else:
If you are going to wear it round camp, I'd go with the tougher material and save the cash.
The issue with insulation that’s attempting to double duty as sleeping and “camp chore” insulation is that your body produces less and less heat through the night the longer you’ve been inactive and as you get into sleep (I think the term is metabolic output), while the ambient temperature (Generally) keeps dropping until the sun comes back up. So you and the ambient temperature keep decreasing.
So you need more warmth at 4am than you do at 8pm, especially if you’re doing any “camp chores” where the movement will make you a lot warmer. So generally sleeping insulation that’s not going to overheat you while worn during setting up camp etc is going to be too cold for sleeping and vice versa. Ponchos, even when reasonably well designed are a bit difficult to cook in, set up tents etc while wearing. Fire and mud collection risk.
That said I still think there is a (niche) use for poncho quilts.
I’ve made an apex 133 with a poncho head slot. I’ve only used that quilt on one trip. It was a summer trip with friends. So we were sitting around talking outside for a few hours in the evening. It was great in this context as I was still enough not to overheat in it, and the loose nature of it does mean it vents well enough. It was warm enough to just not wear it while doing camp chores.
If I was doing solo trips in summer with it, I probably wouldn’t use it as a poncho often - maybe to sit out and star gaze. Maybe nice if I want a slower morning, as I often just get moving ASAP if it’s cold in the morning.
I haven’t used it like this yet, but the other plan I had is when using it as an overquilt, if I’m doing camping with temps below -5c (tbh very rare for me), I can use it to supplement the only puffy I own, which isn’t really sufficient when temps are close to freezing. So I can do camp chores in my light puffy, sit down and eat dinner, throw the poncho quilt over the light puffy so I am warm enough to be able to enjoy sitting outside instead of immediately diving under covers. Then when I do go to bed it’s an overquilt.
I just wrap my quilt around me and my thermarest chair when I'm sat out of an evening. By that time of day, the only chore left is breaking firewood and tending the fire. The quilt stays safely draped over the chair several feet away...
He was Mr. Masdrop for quite a while.
After watching this video, I left my puffy behind on 10 days section of the gr5 a few years back. I didn't freeze to death, but I did manage to get cooking water on the quilt, lightly singe it, and accidentally walk the ends through mud. Or shiver violently and rush through all my camp chores so I could get inside the tent and quilt asap. I may be slightly clumsy, but it made me appreciate the value of having an actual head slot if poncho was to be a frequent intended use. For sitting around, then different wrapping techniques work well, I just find the head slot a lot easier.
I expect I'd be similar.
Except in high summer temps I think I find a puffy jacket easier!
I'm a bit clumsy. I melted the sleeve of my jacket.
I might be like the a bonfire were I to try a quilt this way.
Aye. I guess it's best use case is where you're humming and hawing about whether really need to bring all 300g of insulated jacket or not. It provides a better and more usable solution than the "quilt hacks" in the video. Of course, you're adding a massive 25-50g of weight in having the poncho closure system - and you can't have a sewn footbox so it's generally going to be less efficient at keeping you warm.
The main heat loss from a drawcord footbox closure is through the small hole created by the bunching fabric. Easily cured by snugging the cord closure around a sock.
I'm planning to carry an extra crew neck Alpha direct top -combined with my Argon hoody which I'd have anyway, or silpoly raincoat-160 gms all up. Should be as warm. That's the plan anyway
Footbox zip is beneath you, no significant loss of heat there. Synced Footbox isn't a problem for heat loss.. If fussed, just synch it around a garment, eg sock, hat, t-shirt. In winter, most camps I'd be using a wind bivi to compliment my sleep system.
Unzipped foot box and using the quilt like a duvet works well for me if I'm using a full length pad.
Each to their own... Count your own sheep and all that
Yeah I’m quite restless so I find the “3D” closed footbox on my as tucas quilt helps a lot in terms of keeping the quilt in the right place. The shaped “foot” panel on the quilt is more efficient with the amount of fabric used, less hardware, Warmer and less faffing with plugging the hole.
It’s obviously far less versatile. But I use that quilt for when temps are going to -5c to +5c, so it’s cold enough that I’m not going to want to use it like a blanket anyway.
Anecdotally It seems to add a lot of warmth. At temps around +3c, I was cold in my much simpler Apex 200 quilt (from loco libre) which was the classic simple tapered blanket with a foot zip and drawcord. I diy’d a pad attachment system, similar to the EE system.
whereas my As Tucas quilt I’ve slept through nights that were at least cold enough to freeze the moisture on the quilt shell. So at least -1c I guess. It doesn’t have any drawcords or pad attachment system, which are things people associate as helping manage drafts.
Differences are the shaped footbox, curved “neck” end of the quilt (supposedly this helps it drape and seal drafts without needing to cinch it down), and AS tucas recommend a longer and wider quilt than most other manufacturers. I actually went with less width and length than they recommended, but it’s still noticeably bigger than my loco libre quilt was.
For the less restless sleeper the classic blanket style quilt is probably warm enough, likely a bit lighter (due to smaller dimensions) and more versatile.
Re: wearing a quilt / poncho, I might embarrass myself at some point and try and make vid showing how to wear a quilt inside a jacket (shell / WP jacket best i guess), including the sleeves, to turn yourself into a Michelin man style, very warm camper. Saw a French guy on Youtube doing so, can't find the video again now. Haven't tried in the field yet. Imagine it would be too warm for doing anything apart from sitting around. Obviously quite faffy to achieve, found putting the quilt stuffed jacket on by kinda sliding into it whilst its laid on the floor works best. Soooo warm tho, and you can even fashion a hood too! Looking forward to experimenting with it post lockdown. Probably whilst solo camping well away from anyone else
The video above shows that very well (although I perhaps would have sized up the jacket).
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