LCHF / Keto / Carni / IF Thread

[Franky]

@Franky Delivery organised.

Yeahhhh

 

[Back in Pack]

Carb cycling; to those that have experience with successfully doing it...

When is it time to start? How long should folk stay off keto for before going back on?

My body is starting to tell me to quit keto for a while and switch to paleo with a bit of fasting. It just feels like the thing to do after over a year of doing it.

I've been solid paleo ketogenic with IF for 14 months and feel as though it's done what I needed it to do in terms of fat metabolism and adaptation, weight loss, fitness, and fixing of metabolic issues. I've hit my target weight and running distances. All of my symptoms of high blood sugar and insulin resistance seem to have well gone, along with what appears to be all medical issues.

Sounds like you are ready. After 14 months you should be sufficiently fat adapted.

When I did it first time, I cycled onto (non complex) carbs for a month. You may feel pretty rough as your body readjusts to the carbs and again maybe some Keto flu symptoms when you swap back

You do need a few weeks of carbs for your body to adjust.

I then cycle approx 8 weeks on 3 weeks off to maintain metabolic flexibility.

I maintain my fasting schedule through these phases.

 

[Teepee]

Sounds like you are ready. After 14 months you should be sufficiently fat adapted.

When I did it first time, I cycled onto (non complex) carbs for a month. You may feel pretty rough as your body readjusts to the carbs and again maybe some Keto flu symptoms when you swap back

You do need a few weeks of carbs for your body to adjust.

I then cycle approx 8 weeks on 3 weeks off to maintain metabolic flexibility.

I maintain my fasting schedule through these phases.

Thanks.


I'm thinking that starting to introduce some complex carbs like Artichoke, root veg, Aparagus, Sw potato, then onto some Potato, Chick peas and Lentils so it's not so much of a shock to my system?

 

[Odd Man]

Thanks.


I'm thinking that starting to introduce some complex carbs like Artichoke, root veg, Aparagus, Sw potato, then onto some Potato, Chick peas and Lentils so it's not so much of a shock to my system?

Look into resistant starch and potatoes. Boiling, cooling and reheating them creates resistant starch which is is good for gut and lot less absorbed as traditional carbs.

Cooling Some Foods After Cooking Increases Their Resistant Starch

Resistant starch is a carb with several health benefits. Interestingly, cooling foods like potatoes, rice and pasta may increase their resistant starch content.

www.healthline.com

 

[Back in Pack]

Thanks.


I'm thinking that starting to introduce some complex carbs like Artichoke, root veg, Aparagus), Sw potato, then onto some Potato, Chick peas and Lentils so it's not so much of a shock to my system?

Sounds good. When I wrote complex carbs I meant flour-based foods: bread, pasta and then rice and derivatives.

Asparagus (pre-biotic fibres), sweet potatoes, lentils, lentil pasta are all really good.

I don’t eat potatoes but it depends on your metabolism and what spikes your blood sugar.

 

[Odd Man]

Sounds good. When I wrote complex carbs I meant flour-based foods: bread, pasta and then rice and derivatives.

Asparagus, sweet potatoes, lentils, lentil pasta are all really good.

I don’t eat potatoes but it depends on your metabolism and what spikes your blood sugar.

Robb Wolf has a good book about individual reaction to carbs.

Wired to Eat: How to Rewire Your Appetite and Lose Weight for Good (Audio Download): Robb Wolf, Kaleo Griffith, Random House: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Wired to Eat: How to Rewire Your Appetite and Lose Weight for Good (Audio Download): Robb Wolf, Kaleo Griffith, Random House: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Teepee]

Look into resistant starch and potatoes. Boiling, cooling and reheating them creates resistant starch which is is good for gut and lot less absorbed as traditional carbs.

Cooling Some Foods After Cooking Increases Their Resistant Starch

Resistant starch is a carb with several health benefits. Interestingly, cooling foods like potatoes, rice and pasta may increase their resistant starch content.

www.healthline.com

I wonder if this works for the mash that you heat the boiled spuds to 60c and then cool before once again boiling and then mashing?

 

[Odd Man]

I wonder if this works for the mash that you heat the boiled spuds to 60c and then cool before once again boiling and then mashin

That I don't know.

 

[Teepee]

That I don't know.

A little searching threw up some results; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27132853/

They tested it to 65c (just 5c higher than Heston's fluffy mash recipe) and then fridge cooled (most important step) before reheating. So, amazing fluffy mash could be better than normal mash..

Interestingly, lots of other higher carb foods also gain more RS ; Peas and Sweet potato stood out. It's dead easy to cook the whole lot, fridge/freezer it, and then reheat it.

Bubble and squeak.....

 

[Odd Man]

The sugar conspiracy | Ian Leslie

The Long Read: In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Teepee]

Baby's first keto cycling started this week. I've eased into it with adding in some more Onions, Leeks, Tomato's, Carrots, berries and Almonds, cooked Marrow and started eating the Globe (f) Artichokes I've grown this year....

.........there is no doubt that the Artichokes are being digested.

No sign of issues aside from my waistbelt expanding an inch and I've put a couple of kilo's on. Guts are fine. I'm adding in a small amount of sweet potatoes and Lentils today.
I feel no different apart from feeling a little thirstier ...a sign of being quite insulin insensitive I'm wondering?

Long run incoming tomorrow, 5 hours odd. It will be interesting to see if the change has any effect on energy levels and whether I'll finally have to use the little bit of emergency bog roll and lighter I've been carrying on runs and longer walks for the last 14 months.

 

[Odd Man]

I feel no different apart from feeling a little thirstier ...a sign of being quite insulin insensitive I'm wondering?

Glycogen is stored in liver and muscles and has 10 hydrogen and 5 oxygen molecules vs ketones which have a single oxygen molecule. Your body needs these molecules from somewhere and water is the easiest to break down for this process.

 

[Teepee]

Glycogen is stored in liver and muscles and has 10 hydrogen and 5 oxygen molecules vs ketones which have a single oxygen molecule. Your body needs these molecules from somewhere and water is the easiest to break down for this process.

I take it you mean atoms? It's made me pedantic too

Nothing to do with elevated blood glucose at all? I understood when you came off extended keto, it takes at least a few days for insulin sensitivity to come back?

I'm not overly convinced it's extra water being stored in liver Glycogen....I just weighed myself and I'm 3kg down from yesterday to normal.

 

[Odd Man]

I take it you mean atoms? It's made me pedantic too

Nothing to do with elevated blood glucose at all? I understood when you came off extended keto, it takes at least a few days for insulin sensitivity to come back?

I'm not overly convinced it's extra water being stored in liver Glycogen....I just weighed myself and I'm 3kg down from yesterday to normal.

Be pedantic, I'm far from a chemist, almost flunked it.

It's not just liver, but also intramuscular. Each gram of glycogen stored in your body is bound to 3 or 4 grams of water, hence the water weight you lose when going keto and when you carb up the reverse happens. Obvs personal metabolism, type and amount of carbs etc affect both processes.

 

[Teepee]

Blurred vision coming off keto?

Colours are muted, everything looks a bit foggy and blurry. The complete opposite of going and being on it when colours were vivid and eyesight amazingly sharp.

Garmin watch says I'm stressed, not sleeping well, 4 days to recoverjawdrop from yesterdays long run which isn't normal, it also says run was unproductive.

I'm not piling carbs in, have just increased some complex carbs.

 

[Back in Pack]

Blurred vision coming off keto?

Colours are muted, everything looks a bit foggy and blurry. The complete opposite of going and being on it when colours were vivid and eyesight amazingly sharp.

Garmin watch says I'm stressed, not sleeping well, 4 days to recoverjawdrop from yesterdays long run which isn't normal, it also says run was unproductive.

I'm not piling carbs in, have just increased some complex carbs.

First time, I did not have blurred vision but brain fog and really felt sluggish. I guess my Body was adjusting to the carbs/sugar. I felt rough for a few days.

For me it took a few cycles of on/off Keto for me to not feel awful.

 

[Teepee]

First time, I did not have blurred vision but brain fog and really felt sluggish. I guess my Body was adjusting to the carbs/sugar. I felt rough for a few days.

For me it took a few cycles of on/off Keto for me to not feel awful.

Cheers.

I was expecting that roughness, but I feel OK. A bit of brain fog but nothing major. Plenty of energy and not really feeling roughl. It's just the vision that's bothering me.

I'm fasting today to hopefully see if it's the blood sugar levels that's doing it.

 

[Teepee]

Blurred vision has gone. Lost another kilo, despite doing 200g of carbs yesterday. Only 3kg to go before hitting my ultimate target of 84kg

Weight training was more fun than last week, I feel stronger and hungrier for the reps.

Feeling quite normal today.

I think it may have been the combo of a long hot run on Sunday (used 8l of water), change of food, and not looking after omega's.

 

[EM-Chiseller]

When meat tries to be vegan

 

[cathyjc]

When meat tries to be vegan
View attachment 34553

Once read a guideline from a healthy eating guru that if there are more than 5 items listed on the "ingredients list" you should avoid as it's basically industrial food.
- I give it a bit of leeway as some foods would quite naturally have more ingredients

 

[Nigelp]

When meat tries to be vegan
View attachment 34553

Just imagine what part of a pig the 78% pork is from.

 

[EM-Chiseller]

I didn't buy it... Was curious....

No one spotted the bamboo fibre in the ingredients

 

[EM-Chiseller]

52 miles 12000ft ascent. I was fasted 24 hrs before my first 'snack' and had covered 16 miles. Completed the route on 290g of mince *dried weight*, 135g Jerky, 2 lumps of butter and 100g of chorizo.
#fatadapted
This is the 2nd furthest distance I've done whilst carni (55mile ultra race a few years ago) and the furthest carrying a pack.
It was a great way to feel out what I can do and how little food I can manage on.

It wasn't about time or speed. The elapsed time was 37hrs which included bivi, a few brew stops and half hour horizontal early afternoon 1st day to help my body clock. (it didn't help )
I went from 730am to 1030pm first day and 740am to around 830pm 2nd day.
Carbs?
Total 13g from store bought Jerky

 

[Odd Man]

Intermittent fasting can help manage metabolic disease

Eating your daily calories within a consistent window of 8-10 hours is a powerful strategy to prevent and manage chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease, according to a new manuscript published in the Endocrine Society’s journal, Endocrine Reviews.

www.endocrine.org

 

[Teepee]

An 8 week stint of carb cycling, a 6 week break from much running, doing 3 weeks of bikepacking and hiking, eating very well and consuming more alcohol (plenty of craft ales and some slightly sweeter wines) than an average Wetherspoons has resulted in a ginormous weight gain of around 1000g over 2 months.

I was expecting to put more weight on, it's quite surpising.

What I haven't done is start consuming crap food, it's all been proper whole foods (except the drink and a couple of drunken slices of pizza and a dirty great big kebab one night).

Injury niggles have gone with the break. I feel refreshed and hungry for the mental clarity, great mood, and seemingly endless energy that being fully fat adapted brings. I'll miss the extra 'go' in my muscles though that I've felt I've regained

This time, I'll be keeping carbs a little higher than before, especially on big days.

Food induced Ketosis is back after a week of easing in, I can taste it and feel it.

Onwards and upwards.