LCHF / Keto / Carni / IF Thread

markgoodlad

Ultralighter
40hrs! Wet fast?
I recently did a 42 and it was difficult to not continue further..
My mistake was when I started my refeed. I should have just had some scrambled eggs. I had a heavy cream coffee and then steak and bacon... Way too much fat,that normally wouldn't be a problem.... It. Was an 'interesting' ☺️ experience.

I felt fantastic though 👍
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Awesome.

After a longer fast, I find the best way to break it, is to have a very small light meal, normally Bone broth (easy on the gut lining) and then have a higher protein based meal after a couple of hours - otherwise it can be "interesting" as you say.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Lean, high quality protein is my fast ending meal. No fibre and little fat to allow my digestion to switch on again without getting barraged. Mackerel, Salmon, Sardines, or some lean beef . Sometimes white fish with a little bit of organic butter.

I notice if I make efforts to keep my first meal high in Omega 3, it goes a long way to reduce any niggly pains and I'll wait a while before having a more substantial meal.

Never usually caffeine with food these days, it apparently increases blood sugar, and stores more food as fat. Best to keep drinks caffiene free with food if your after losing weight and sticking to this is working very well for me.
 
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el manana

Thru Hiker
40hrs! Wet fast?
I recently did a 42 and it was difficult to not continue further..
My mistake was when I started my refeed. I should have just had some scrambled eggs. I had a heavy cream coffee and then steak and bacon... Way too much fat,that normally wouldn't be a problem.... It. Was an 'interesting' ☺️ experience.

I felt fantastic though 👍
View attachment 33367

@Chiseller - out of interest how does that app know ketosis has kicked in? Surely it needs some sort of blood test? I guess every person could be quite different based on a whole range of factors e.g if they're overweight etc. Keto seems to refer to 24hours a lot, coincidence its the same number of hours in a day?
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
@Chiseller - out of interest how does that app know ketosis has kicked in? Surely it needs some sort of blood test? I guess every person could be quite different based on a whole range of factors e.g if they're overweight etc. Keto seems to refer to 24hours a lot, coincidence its the same number of hours in a day?
Couldn't help you with an answer... With the app it's based on time zones from the last meal.
Depending on diet, there will be variables. With me being nil carb by mouth, I'm virtually in a constant state of ketosis.
The app figures between 12 - 16Hrs after the last meal for ketosis to really kick in.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
@Chiseller - out of interest how does that app know ketosis has kicked in? Surely it needs some sort of blood test? I guess every person could be quite different based on a whole range of factors e.g if they're overweight etc. Keto seems to refer to 24hours a lot, coincidence its the same number of hours in a day?
The human body can only store a finite amount of liver glycogen before stores are depleted. This corresponds to an average time, which I understand to be around 12 hours give or take a few.

There are lots of blood test scanners around, some electronic, some urine, some blood and it's easy to check.

FWIW, as you get more and more fat adapted the longer you spend in ketosis, the better and more efficient your body becomes at utilising ketone bodies and the blood ketone levels actually reduce as they are being used more readily.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
@Chiseller - out of interest how does that app know ketosis has kicked in? Surely it needs some sort of blood test? I guess every person could be quite different based on a whole range of factors e.g if they're overweight etc. Keto seems to refer to 24hours a lot, coincidence its the same number of hours in a day?
I've had just over 3hrs sleep since Sunday night when I took just over 5hrs sleep... I worked 10hrs on Saturday, 7 hrs on Monday and will do just shy of 11 today. I've Excercised once between then other than press-ups.
The energy lasts a long time before a burnout... Then I need longer sleep or a long period of idleness
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
For anyone wanting to understand the huge benefits of fasting/being in a ketogenic state, why our modern high carb low fat diet is making us ill why it's probably giving us all manner of ailments, this video is a great watch. He's a good and entertaining speaker.

 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
For anyone wanting to understand the huge benefits of fasting/being in a ketogenic state, why our modern high carb low fat diet is making us ill why it's probably giving us all manner of ailments, this video is a great watch. He's a good and entertaining speaker.

Or save valuable life hours, don't watch it, don't go down YouTube rabbit holes, don't over think it and just eat clean, avoid carbs apart from what your chosen lifestyle requires and just eat and drink as clean as you can, space meal times as far as you can or go to one meal a day, get exercise in any form when you can and most of all, be healthy and happy 😉
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Or save valuable life hours, don't watch it, don't go down YouTube rabbit holes, don't over think it and just eat clean, avoid carbs apart from what your chosen lifestyle requires and just eat and drink as clean as you can, space meal times as far as you can or go to one meal a day, get exercise in any form when you can and most of all, be healthy and happy 😉
I posted to try and help others avoid the ravaging effects of Alzheimers, cancer, diabetes, auto immune diseases, and various other ailments.
It's ripped my family apart, is continuing to do so. It may not have been necessary, and there is a very good chance a lot of it could have been helped with diet.

Why do you belittle it? it's obviously not bunkum and echoes a lot of your input, but explains why the benefits are found...
..Why is your input more worthy than a qualified practitioner that's studied it professionally and uses it in a clinical setting?
Why should folk not try to educate themselves? :o o: Some of us like to, evidenced by the 1m+ views and the comments.
 

Ally

Ultralighter
@Chiseller - out of interest how does that app know ketosis has kicked in? Surely it needs some sort of blood test? I guess every person could be quite different based on a whole range of factors e.g if they're overweight etc. Keto seems to refer to 24hours a lot, coincidence its the same number of hours in a day?
A blood glucose level <3mmol with a thumb prick test.

Pee sticks are a reasonable guide but not definitive as can test negative while you are in keto due to all the available ketones being used for energy and none excreted .

Over eating protein will push the body out of keto as excess protein is converted into sugar via glucogensis and used/ stored as the body will always go for the most easy available energy source ie sugar.

Glycogen depletion from from liver and muscle mass will vary between people based activity, type of activity and muscle mass. 24hrs or less is possible if you start fasting after a low carb diet and use anaerobic exercise to deplete or/and use glucose disposal agents or carbless insulin injections. Average person coming from a normal carb based diet will be 72 hours ish.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
Why do you belittle it? it's obviously not bunkum and echoes a lot of your input, but explains why the benefits are found...
..Why is your input more worthy than a qualified practitioner that's studied it professionally and uses it in a clinical setting?

Why should folk not try to educate themselves? :o o: Some of us like to, evidenced by the 1m+ views and the comments.
'belittle' 😂
I saw The Video was over an hour long....

It doesn't take that long for anyone who's interested to learn the benefits.

Waste of time... Bit like My reply now.
My ketones are firing... No stress, no gloom, just positivity going forward towards my next steak, walk or watching an old western....
Sithee 😉
 

Odd Man

Thru Hiker
A blood glucose level <3mmol with a thumb prick test.

It's easier to measure ketones with ketone prick test.

GKI is more accurate way of looking at the body's ability to use ketones as energy.

When starting keto, both levels are all over the place. It takes a while before the body adjusts to its own normal levels when it gets efficient in fat burning.

Different people are on different ketone levels even when on the same diet. Some have naturally higher glucose levels, some have higher ketone levels.

Pee sticks are a reasonable guide but not definitive as can test negative while you are in keto due to all the available ketones being used for energy and none excreted .

Actually this is incorrect. Pee sticks are very unreliable way of measuring ketones and they only measure AcAc. Blood test can measure BHB and is more accurate.

When starting keto, the pee sticks show high results because body is inefficient in using ketones, but later on will adjust to show little or no ketones. It's better to go with blood tests for consistent results.

Over eating protein will push the body out of keto as excess protein is converted into sugar via glucogensis and used/ stored as the body will always go for the most easy available energy source ie sugar.

Gluconeogenesis is a demand driven process and also very metabolically taxing process. It's very slow and only initiated when glucose is needed by the body. Rest of the protein is either broken down to aminos and/or evacuated. High protein intake in keto is very unlikely to kick anyone out of ketosis. Fat also increases insulin levels, basically eating any macro will do that to a varying levels.

Glucose adapted have higher demand driven process, hence higher insulin levels when eating high protein, but that will drop with the fat adaption.

High protein foods also take more energy (25%) just to process it.


Glycogen depletion from from liver and muscle mass will vary between people based activity, type of activity and muscle mass. 24hrs or less is possible if you start fasting after a low carb diet and use anaerobic exercise to deplete or/and use glucose disposal agents or carbless insulin injections. Average person coming from a normal carb based diet will be 72 hours ish.

Also depends on metabolic flexibility. Metabolically flexible people burn whatever source is quickest to access. People on high carb diets tend to utilise carbs better and fats worse, where as fully fat adapted people tend to have higher threshold for glucose burning basically meaning that in aerobic zone (which is wider with adapted people) they will use much more of the fat available in the body preserving glucose more for more demanding anaerobic activities. Some people who've been on keto a long time actually can have a very poor utilisation of carb/glucose due to fat adaptation.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Sorry, just seen this. Yep just water/decaff coffee. followed by a OMAD week.

Now a week later and I'm 24 hrs into my second attempt at a long fast. Now I know how I react I feel more confident this time around.
Well done. 💪

I don't know if you got it but I start to feel amazing when 24 hours approach, huge mental clarity, great mood and massive energy.

A word of caution (apologies if you know this), but watch you don't fast too often and restrict calories too much or it starts working against you by reducing your metabolism. As we age I understand it's generally good to make the fasts longer but less regular,taking days off. We're all different though.
By cycling on and off fasting, it makes the fasts a shock to the system rather than the body sensing a sustained caloric restiction and becoming more efficient at using them.

Anecdotally, I hit a bit of a wall after 3 months of solid Omad and stopped losing weight. I then pigged out for a couple of weeks, started fasting again, paying attention to having days on and off and the weight started dropping off again fast.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
Ran my first ultra in over two years yesterday and my first mountain class ultra.
Last meal which was light was 236pm the previous day.
Ran a snip 24 miles before I decided to eat the 200g of salami and pepperami that I'd carried in my pack since the start but could have easily finished without.
IMG_20210730_113801.jpg
I was thinking more of the meat spoiling and not being able to eat it at the finish, knowing I only had some trail gravel in the car and it was a 2hr journey home.
Finished with a coffee and some trail gravel
IMG_20210730_131104.jpgThis was the longest Ive ran carni and fasted (I did a 55 mile trail ultra whilst carni, but snacked on meats, eggs and cheese during that one as I was inexperienced and not gone further than 18 miles before.)
Posted here for folks looking at this thread, to see that being nil carb, high fat and protein fuelled can give great results and for endurance, the only wall that exists is in the mind... 😉
 

MartinK9

Section Hiker
Well done. 💪

I don't know if you got it but I start to feel amazing when 24 hours approach, huge mental clarity, great mood and massive energy.
Many Thanks.

I think my late OMAD led me into the fast easier.

A word of caution (apologies if you know this), but watch you don't fast too often and restrict calories too much or it starts working against you by reducing your metabolism. As we age I understand it's generally good to make the fasts longer but less regular,taking days off. We're all different though.
By cycling on and off fasting, it makes the fasts a shock to the system rather than the body sensing a sustained caloric restiction and becoming more efficient at using them.
No not at all, caution away. The more info put out there might assist others.


I'm currently at time of posting 46 hours in with no dizziness, hunger-pains, loss of clarity or sleep. I could get an early night and therefore sleep the next 12 hours to make a 60hr fast.
 

MartinK9

Section Hiker
I'm currently at time of posting 46 hours in with no dizziness, hunger-pains, loss of clarity or sleep. I could get an early night and therefore sleep the next 12 hours to make a 60hr fast.
The mind's a funny old thing isn't it? I made it to 50.5 hours and suddenly got a craving for scrambled eggs. o_O

Midnight snack it is then.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
The mind's a funny old thing isn't it? I made it to 50.5 hours and suddenly got a craving for scrambled eggs. o_O

Midnight snack it is then.
Nice work Martin 👍 have you been at work during your fast?

I'm changing to a new time To start my fasting periods and hopefully be able to make it work for when I want to run, work and sleep 👍
 

MartinK9

Section Hiker
Nice work Martin 👍 have you been at work during your fast?

I'm changing to a new time To start my fasting periods and hopefully be able to make it work for when I want to run, work and sleep 👍
Hi mate, nope I'm retired so haven't had to factor that in. That with dealing with my Dad's estate and funeral has put all outdoor stuff on hold.

I was already on LCHF due to Diabetes so the change to OMAD wasn't such a shock.
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
@tarptent whats for Sunday dinner?

IMG_20210801_141601.jpgIMG_20210801_141641.jpg
It's only 1.8Lbs of bacon (with nitrates) ½lb of cheese and. 3 eggs... (I mean what's a bit of cholesterol? Right 😉)
I will be okay? Won't I?
I didn't go too heavy on the added salt 😉 and at least it wasn't iodineated salt 😄 just good old cornish sea salt 😋
 

EM-Chiseller

Thru Hiker
Well, the WHO do classify bacon as a Group 1 Carcinogen...
......but other studies suggest it's only 18% more likely to lead to heart disease....

So, yum 😀

I'll not bother to read the replies 😇
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