Hiking with dogs and correcting them off-leash: E-collars and other options

Discussion in 'Hiking Chat' started by DuneElliot, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Taz38

    Taz38 Section Hiker

    @Fossil Bluff totally agree.

    In my line of work (kids) its all about positive reinforcement, but many of us think it doesn't always work.

    I'm absolutely no expert on dog training, but I 'trained' my collie using both positive (praise/fuss) and negative (crate/no attention/not going for a (fun) walk/a good telling off) which seemed to have paid off, she a well behaved happy dog. Can still be naughty but usually with other people ( she'll take advantage).
  2. Fair Weather Camper

    Fair Weather Camper Thru Hiker

    Totally no doggy expert neither but trainabilty has got to come down to breeding as well.
    Some dogs such as collies are bred to be intelligent, eager to please, and keen to work.
    So should in theory be highly trainable.

    Some such as Dalmatians maybe, are designed to look pretty and find deep fascination in following a carriage wheel all day....Hence a trifle lacking in brain power.

    But from talking to professional animal trainers, a lot of it comes down to being very clear and consistent in what you're asking for.

    Despite owners protestations dogs (or horses or whatever) Dont "Understand every word I say"

    They don't know the answer to "Who's a good boy then??"
    They're hoping it's them, but are looking to the owner for a definitive answer..

    And although positive reinforcement goes a long way, the occasional reprimand isn't out of place either.

    It's what dogs, as experience, and expect as subordinate pack members.

    And I think the idea is, that the dog is below the owner in the peck order.. For her own, and others safety, security, and mental wellbeing.

    The dogs on leads in livestock fields is a trucky area.

    AFAIK The landowner has a duty of care not to put potentially dangerous stock, in a field crossed by a public right of way.

    Hence the expression "Public Right of Way"

    But at the same time the right of the livestock owner, to shoot a dog that is worrying animals, stands, as a legal right too.

    I'd still let a dog off the lead, and tell it to bugger off, if i was being charged by anything larger than a duck though.
  3. Fossil Bluff

    Fossil Bluff Trail Blazer

    That’s because she has to ‘take advantage’ - she has no choice. Other people don’t give her leadership in a way that she understands you. This causes anxiety and the dog is ‘hard wired’ to take the lead, she doesn’t want to, she has to.

    The dog in order:

    1. Animal
    2. Species
    3. Breed
    4. Individual

    We tend to treat them in reverse order i.e Fido does this because it’s just him.

    What the dog requires for an ordered life and leadership:

    1. Exercise
    2. Discipline
    3. Affection

    Again, we tend to start with affection.

    I’ve plagiarised Cesar Millan.

    :)
    cathyjc likes this.
  4. dovidola

    dovidola Section Hiker

    My cousin's household has a different idea. They're on their third successive Airedale Terrier, and I'll grant them one thing: they're consistent.

    It generally goes something like this:

    Scene I
    Me: Why is Sophie/Bubbles/Whatever running around the house barking her head off?
    Cousin: Because she's sensitive, aren't you Sophie/Bubbles/Whatever darling?
    M: If she keeps jumping on me, I'm going to smack her.
    (shocked silence, dog carries on as before, smack administered, surprised-looking dog slinks off)
    C: Don't do that, she'll probably bite you.
    M: If that dog bites me, I'll bite it back.
    C (plus family/friends, sotto voce): What an awful man, not at all like his lovely father, etc etc...
    Scene II
    Cousin's Hubby, slightly the worse for claret, (aside) having cornered me on the way out:
    How on earth did you get away with it? I've been wanting to do that for ages.
  5. Fossil Bluff

    Fossil Bluff Trail Blazer

  6. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    I wish all dogs I met were this well trained.
    I'm getting right fed up with meeting dogs who race towards me jump up all over me and I have to ask the owner to call them off. This is on the private road thru' the local estate woods.
    One guy said "I had a bad attitude to dogs" - he was busy staring the other way purposfully ignoring my discomfort, as his overly friendly collie was jumping all over me and it's teeth were in contact with my raised elbows (above shoulder height). How would he feel if I brought my dog (I don't have one!) into his garden and it mauled him and I just stood and watched ??

    It is of course almost always the owners fault and many members of our current society are truly selfish and thoughtless.
    Baldy likes this.
  7. gixer

    gixer Thru Hiker

    That's really annoying isn't it, you tell the ownner to control their dog and they complain that you're a dog hater

    No i don't hate dogs, but i dislike stupid, ignorant owners, usually works :whistling:
  8. Baldy

    Baldy Section Hiker

  9. Pipe Cleaner

    Pipe Cleaner Backpacker

    Just one thought, if you don't have control at distance then don't let your dogs reach distance you lose control at. You have a responsibility to control your dog. If you can't train it without using e collars then perhaps just accept your have to keep your dogs closer. Long leads if necessary.

    It might not be what you want but at the end of the day that's really not important. Legally you have to keep your dog under control at all times. Legally landowners can shoot your dog if they're worrying livestock. Worrying is a very vague and wide phrase that precedent probably favours the landowner. So it's a choice you have.

    As a new dog owner I'm cautious. We have eyes on our dog almost all the time. We're always checking it's with us. If it stretches the contact it gets called back. It's only 11 months old but it obeys so far. IMHO that's a level of control that satisfies our legal responsibilities except around livestock. IMHO you need a lead to be sure you don't have issues.

    We had an easy job because our dog came as a blank canvas puppy that we trained to fit into our family and behave as we want her to. Not guaranteed but we didn't have any pre-existing training to cope with.
  10. cathyjc

    cathyjc Thru Hiker

    Exactly.
    I grew up with a soppy old labrador so I don't hate dogs at all. :D
    I've been toying with getting a dog now, as the kids are just about 'away'. Quiet around the house.
    gixer likes this.

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