Dolomites september

Discussion in 'Places & Planning' started by Daymoth, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Sorry to open a different thread about this, I feel things have changed enough from my original "plans" that I need a new post.

    Soooo, its happening. 1sr to 16th of september!

    Knowing the SO, we are doing 2-3 nights and then a rest day or he will spend the whole trip saying I am in a mission to kill him.

    If you dont mind I will write about the routes Im interested and ask for info.
    ( @tom , @edh pretty please).
  2. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    So first route I am looking at:

    Palarondatrek, aproximate route:
    D1 go up the lift ( no shame) to Paso Roseta and walk 707-709 to Rif. Pralidali, check out the glacier mid way.
    D2 Rif. Pradidali to Rif. Treviso through the valley.
    D3 707 from Rif Treviso back to Roseta and down the lift ( zero shame).

    So questions:
    - I VERY much rather camp than be in a hut. The lady at San Martino has said in no uncertain terms that it is not allowed in the area, but she wants to sell me the Palarondatrek package. How strict is this rule?
    - Anybody knows if and where there are good pitches with water in this route? I saw just one bivacco nearish the route, no more.
    - Should I take a helmet (I remember @edh mentioned rockfall on the AV2 route)?
    - Do you know if CAI rifugios are happy to give you a member price if you have AAC and BMC membership (without the extra BMC reciprocity card)?

    Love you guys.
  3. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    "Connection error" double post...
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  4. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    There are no general wild camp restrictions in Italy (except national parks [NP] see below) but local /land owner issues may arise in popular areas. There is very little NP info about high level camps. I found this current policy for Gran Paradiso NP: "If you want to stay overnight in a tent in the Park you are welcome, as long as you use the appropriate campsites. On the other hand, it is not possible to camp freely outside the equipped areas, for emergency reasons it is allowed the one-night mountaineering bivouac, in case the localities are not served by shelters or if they are fully booked."
    Pale di San Martino is partially a NP (check google maps for details)
    CAI refugios do not have common policy about discounts (which is only bed - no meals in any case) or tents near huts. Some do, some don't. Italian refugios are leased from the regional CAI (not run by local chapters like in France). They do have to agree to CAI policies but that is difficult to enforce.
    Your route shouldn't pose any difficulties. Sadly not much of that glacier left last year. Also, the flashes on the first part of 709 were a little faded....
    Water: generally not much above the tree line in the dolomites for geological reasons. Many refugios only have glacial/neve water supplies (take filter), so water is commonly a problem when camping. I remember on little stream but not on your route (and I didn't camp on your route).
    Happy trails :)
    Daymoth likes this.
  5. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Thanks Tom, you are a star!

    I think all considered we will take the tent but try the first hikes in the refugios. Its unknown territory and the lack of water concerns me. Maybe after the first one we decide to stealth camp or just carry on in the huts.

    Unto the next hike:

    Im trying to see if I can create a good 5 or 6 day circular walk that takes in the areas of the odles, sella, sassiopiato/lungo, catinaccio area without exposed or flowing scree difficult sections but its looking really hard!
  6. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    Just take the tent and ask at huts (they can only say no) or spot opportunities. Scarces water usually means carrying more weight...

    About other routes, have a look at the Rosegarden: Beautiful trails between Col Rodela, Alpe di Tires, Passo Principe (scary looking descent and ascent between Molignon pass and Principe but actually good path and no problems) and Roda de Vael at the other end of the Rosegarden range. Gartl and Pas de Antermoa are also good trails. Not circular but Val di Fassa has excellent public transport...
  7. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    Another thought - you could consider asking for dinner and breakfast while enquiring about pitching your tent next to a rifugio (È possibile dormire in una tenda e avere una mezza pensione qui?) - that might get more sympathetic responses (and save carrying lots of food)
  8. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Problem is I want to see everything and that is just impossible!

    Im strugling to pick between odles, sella, sassolungo-sassopiato, scilar-rosengarden and nivolau.
  9. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    and Lagazoi - Tofane...
    Several trips....perhaps? :rolleyes:
  10. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Yep yep, I cant see any other option... Doesnt make it easier though to chose for the first trip!

    Can you tell me more about the scary section around Passo Principe? Gillian Price mentions "very steep descent scree slope". Is it exposed? I suffer in exposed sections.
  11. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    I've not found Gillian Price the most accurate and reliable Ciccerone writer - she both exaggerates and understates quite frequently in all her books.

    Anyway, it does look quite dramatic - climbing down into what looks like a massive 330m deep hole - with the 3000m Antermoia summit looming right above - in between the 2 passes (both approx 2600m). Quite an impressive vista. As you decent, you begin to see that the hole is the head of a narrow canyon which leads down towards Tires (there's a hut down that canyon too). There is some scree (mostly on the Molignon side) but mostly a mix of clay and gravel with good footing. It looks quite scary from the top of either side but the switchbacks are wide rather than narrow which didn't feel too exposed and it wasn't very slippery. Definitely not one of those trails were I'm slower down than up! The climb up to Principe was gruelling but not challenging. I've got pics but not here on my phone...

    Incidentally the huts both sides are quite special (but too close to stay in both). Principe is right on the pass build entirely of wood and into a cliff face. Tiny hut where every little corner is put to good use - like on a ship. Quite charming and a bit zen - we really liked it (about 10/12 years ago in deep snow). Alpe di Tires is large and very friendly. I arrived there just as a big storm broke in 2015 and decided to stay as the weather and visibility were too bad to carry on to Principe. They have some pretty little double rooms (you need to ask for) - build in untreated wood - but you pay per bed just like the larger dorms... I had one to myself - what decadent luxury having an afternoon nap with the rain hammering the roof and thunder cracking ... :)
    Daymoth and edh like this.
  12. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    It does sound good!

    So, I think it will be either:
    Option 1. Odles loop starting in Selva + sella traverse on the AV2 using bus 471 to get back to Selva.
    or
    Option 2. Scilar- Antermoia- Rosergarten. This looks great but I am finding the buses really hard to figure out! I think we would have to take a Bus to Bolzano and back to get from Siusi to Vigo di Fassa... So like 3 hours....

    @tom in your personal opinion, is Option 2 worth dealing with the extra logistics, or even turning around and doing Molignon - Principe twice compared to Option 1? Or are both options stunning and dramatic so might as well go for the easier one bus-wise?

    I know, Im a pain. God pay you with lots of good mountain weather!
  13. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    I'm following closely, think I'll go back again next year.

    Echo Tom's comments on Gillian Price...but to be honest I think that extends to many guidebook writers.

    Good luck with whichever route(s) you (finally :angelic:) choose.
    tom and Daymoth like this.
  14. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    Not sure what makes you choose Scilar? I'd start or finish at Vigo di Fassa (towards Rif Roda di Veal) and Canacai or Ciampidel on the other end. Or a shorter circular from Vigo di Fassa via Passo Antermoa and Rifugio Antermoa. But public transport between Vigo di Fassa and Canazai is excellent....
    I don't know Selva but you might find trail number 666 up the Sella towers from Passo Gardena more of a challenge than anything in the Rosegarden....
    Enjoy and I hope the weather goddess listens to you...:)
    Daymoth likes this.
  15. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Ah thankyou!!! That makes sense :)

    Going to study the map some more this afternoon
  16. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    @edh did you stay at rifugio Puez when in AV2, or did you find a good camping spot in that area? ( The reviews are dreadful but the views look amazing).
  17. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    No I went past it.
    There's places to pitch, but it's quite busy and public.
  18. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    Rif Puez is tiny and quite commercial (I only had lunch there once - wouldn't do that again) but all busyness on Sella stops magically at 5pm after the last cable car went down (the other side is not too busy anyway). I only stayed at one Rif on Sella - Forcella del Pordoi - which was friendly and pleasant - maybe a bit the "Cinderella" amongst the Sella refugios (or maybe it was just my day...)?
    Daymoth likes this.
  19. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    What was your start and end that day?
  20. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    I went from the small and really nice mini-refuge at Madalges-Alm to Passo Gardena (my gpx track tells me it was about 9 miles with 1200m of ascent).

    I should get my trip report up over the weekend.
    Daymoth likes this.
  21. tom

    tom Section Hiker

    Apologies for confusion :( - I mixed up Piz Boe hut (it sure got a view!!! if little else) with Rif Puez (wouldn't go there for views). But Puez is not tiny... :D
    edh likes this.
  22. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Booked the first night!!! Thanks for the recomendation :)
    (Or thats what I think. My telephone german-italian-spanglish experience was stressful.)
    edh likes this.
  23. edh

    edh Thru Hiker

    The range you cross from the hut... Looks intimidating but is fine..
    045-20180712_092011.jpg
  24. Daymoth

    Daymoth Trail Blazer

    Oh WOW! Looks amazing!

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