Alcohol at 20 below?

OwenM

Thru Hiker
People on this site seem to have lots of experience of alcohol stoves. So, how does it perform in the very cold? I'm think down to around -20C. How efficient is alcohol for snow melting? Does this use up huge quantities of fuel?
I've always used petrol stoves in the past but I now don't have one and gas just doesn't like the cold. Petrol stoves are very expensive so I really don't want to buy another. Also they're a real problem for flying. I could take a new one, still on the box on the outward journey but then what do you do coming home?

So, I'm just looking at the alternative.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Melting snow with alcohol is a thankless task. It uses at least double the amount fo liquid water and takes ages.

Wood or hydrocarbons for melting snow. Gas is fine down to -20 with a winter mix and quality remote stove, but the weight of the cans becomes a penalty quite quickly. Primus Powerfuel in both Hexane and gas are about the best mixes, very closely followed by alkylate petrol.

Flying out with them is fine to Scandinavia. I clean the stoves with liquid gas and leave to air before flying. Bottles are covered in tape to remove any indication of fuel and tops left off with the pump, tools and spares seperate. There must be no trace of fuel.

Coming home means running a bottle of Coca-cola/ vinegar/ hot detergent through the entire assembly until it smells spotless. A note placed on top of the stove lists the actions taken to clean it.
 

WilliamC

Thru Hiker
I've used meths at 16 below and it was fine. A Torjet or similar lighter helps. I haven't used it to melt snow and wouldn't barring an emergency.
 
Really struggling to see the attraction of being in a tent at these temperatures ... :frown:

You keep your mittens on strings, at all times, yes??

Reckon a mahooosive big wood fire, is best snow melting (and rescue signalling) option :coldfeet:
 
Does it really get to - 20 in Turkey?

Well mercy me - i spose it might, if you're high up enough.

How does the :) whistling :) help?

It certainly looks like a cheery enough thing ... but ?
 

WilliamC

Thru Hiker
Does it really get to - 20 in Turkey?

Well mercy me - i spose it might, if you're high up enough.

How does the :) whistling :) help?

It certainly looks like a cheery enough thing ... but ?

Hmm, it appears that if you put :whistling: between parentheses, it comes out as :) whistling :).
It gets a lot colder than 16 below in Turkey, but that's the coldest we've been out in (clear night at altitude in winter).
 
Hmm, it appears that if you put :whistling: between parentheses, it comes out as :) whistling :).
It gets a lot colder than 16 below in Turkey, but that's the coldest we've been out in (clear night at altitude in winter).

Well, with two bunked up under a quilt, the temperature parameters ((or even parenthesis :angelic:)) might shift somewhat...

But enough of this 'alternative warmth sources' digression - back to the serious fuel chat, chaps, and chappesses.

And me back to my very serious admin ...
 

OwenM

Thru Hiker
Really struggling to see the attraction of being in a tent at these temperatures ... :frown:

:coldfeet:

Because if you wait till the temperatures are warmer the snow goes all soggy and sticky and is totally crap to ski. It's a tour I've always wanted to do and as I turn 60 this winter I think I should get on and do it before I get to decrepit. Unfortunately there's a big gap in the line of huts so if you want to do it you have to camp.

Melting snow with alcohol is a thankless task. It uses at least double the amount fo liquid water and takes ages.

.

I was afraid that would be the case, looks like I just have to save up for a MSR then.
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
Because if you wait till the temperatures are warmer the snow goes all soggy and sticky and is totally crap to ski. It's a tour I've always wanted to do and as I turn 60 this winter I think I should get on and do it before I get to decrepit. Unfortunately there's a big gap in the line of huts so if you want to do it you have to camp.



I was afraid that would be the case, looks like I just have to save up for a MSR then.

They are a bit 'nippy' on the wallet these days. :) Just checked, prices for MSR and Primus still higher in Scandi.

IME, MSR XGK is still the best for pure snowmelting power and ease of maintenance. Omnilite Ti is by far the lightest though on fuel use and stove weight, and the Primus stoves run gas canisters. You can cook properly on them too. I dont rate Optimus FWIW, nor the Soto.

I run the Omnilite, (or Omnifuel for group cooking) with spare pump, spares kit, fuel line, pump leathers, and some homemade tools that are lacking from the kits like a cleaning cable and spanner to remove a part from the pumps.
 
Because if you wait till the temperatures are warmer the snow goes all soggy and sticky and is totally crap to ski. It's a tour I've always wanted to do and as I turn 60 this winter I think I should get on and do it before I get to decrepit. Unfortunately there's a big gap in the line of huts so if you want to do it you have to camp.

Ok I get it ; I even get that sticking yr head out the tent at night ; and getting vertigo from looking up at the clear effulgence of the 3D star-scape.

I do appreciate being in the winter landscape ; I just need to work on circulation in fingers and toes ; and get over the dread of the intense cold ; I know ; proper dry cold is a totally different thing ; to the soggy chill we get most winters here in the UK. - Something to work on ... :coldfeet:

Have fun on your trip - burn wood :angelic:
 

Lady Grey

Thru Hiker
As above MSR Whisperlites or higher up the XGK
Owned and used both extensively when was always high !!!!!, younger, stronger but more foolish...except for stove choice, that is
:rolleyes:
 

Teepee

Thru Hiker
New Whisperlite universal now comes with a gas connector.

Gas connectors on multifuels are well worth having IMO. Means you can screw your stove to a can left in a hut, or anothers different makes pump and bottle. Also bypasses many stove problems as liquid gas will usually still flow through blockages that stop liquid fuels.

A gas cart is godsend when your multifuel stove blocks at minus stupid in a blizard. Servicing small metal parts in the snow and avoiding a spirit freeze burn is much less chellenging when you already have a warm drink and feeling in your fingers. :)

You can regularly pick up a used MSR Whisperlite for £30 - £40 - Like this

The problem with used stoves is you never know what fuel has been used. If someone has run a few bottles of paraffin or pump petrol through them, it leaves a deposit in the lines which break off and clogs internals, especially with higher quailty fuel. Of all the normal blockages, flaked deposits are the most infuriating as they block the filter elements as well as jets and lines.
 

Rog Tallbloke

Thru Hiker
Never used anything but ordinary automotive forecourt petrol in mine. Shake the shaky thing inside to clear the jet and she's good to roar. (Bet I get a flaky blockage now I've said that. :rolleyes: )
 

OwenM

Thru Hiker
New Whisperlite universal now comes with a gas connector.

Yes just been looking at these and think they may be the answer. (£116 at Cotswold with discount).
The problem with used stoves is you never know what fuel has been used. If someone has run a few bottles of paraffin or pump petrol through them, it leaves a deposit in the lines which break off and clogs internals, especially with higher quailty fuel. Of all the normal blockages, flaked deposits are the most infuriating as they block the filter elements as well as jets and lines.

Had problems with the old style Whisperlite getting very sooty using automotive petrol and a total melt down with Bolivian paraffin. My old Colman Peak 1 was fine with lead free petrol but clogged up on 4 star.
 
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Teepee

Thru Hiker
Never used anything but ordinary automotive forecourt petrol in mine. Shake the shaky thing inside to clear the jet and she's good to roar. (Bet I get a flaky blockage now I've said that. :rolleyes: )
Sucked out of the lawnmower tank with hosepipe, straining the grass clippings with your teeth? :biggrin:

Yes just been looking at these and think they may be the answer.


Had problems with the old style Whisperlite getting very sooty using automotive petrol and a total melt down with Bolivian paraffin. My old Colman Peak 1 was fine with lead free petrol but clogged up on 4 star.

Very sooty fuels from the forecourt, full of benzene too. I tried to cook on some old unleaded with lead replacement additive. You could see the sausages of soot growing from the jet, after a few mins it would block completely.

Scandinavian fuels are entirely different. High quality alkylate petrol is sold in most garages in bottles, for use in chainsaws etc. White gas (Coleman fuel) in most shops where Powerfuel isnt. Primus Powerfuel is most camping shops and is pure heptane, one of the cleanest burning fuels.
 

OwenM

Thru Hiker
Thanks for the offer but I picked up a wisperlite universal at the weekend. Only used it on gas at air temperature so far but it seem fine.
 
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