Ticks and Lyme Disease

el manana

el manana

Thru Hiker
I think theres a few Youtube vids where people create a weaker solution and then submerge all their clothes in them.

Using EX4 Lifesystems by spraying it on clothes hanging on a washing line has always seemed wasteful to me. I open a black bin bag in a old washbasin, spray in it a few times then drop each item of clothing in spraying the main areas (cuffs, waist lines, ankles and calfs, neckline etc). Roll the bag up and leave it 20 mins. When I get the clothes out they feel damp all over, the odd dry patch I spot gets a blast.

I dont know if this is an effective way but on my 3 season clothing (tops, pants, socks) I can get 3 years from a bottle doing it every spring (starting next weekend)
 
Nigelp

Nigelp

Thru Hiker
el manana said:
I think theres a few Youtube vids where people create a weaker solution and then submerge all their clothes in them.

Using EX4 Lifesystems by spraying it on clothes hanging on a washing line has always seemed wasteful to me. I open a black bin bag in a old washbasin, spray in it a few times then drop each item of clothing in spraying the main areas (cuffs, waist lines, ankles and calfs, neckline etc). Roll the bag up and leave it 20 mins. When I get the clothes out they feel damp all over, the odd dry patch I spot gets a blast.

I dont know if this is an effective way but on my 3 season clothing (tops, pants, socks) I can get 3 years from a bottle doing it every spring (starting next weekend)
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That’s what I have always done with spray treatments. Last year I used the Sawyer spray treatment but with the ‘bag’ method.
 
Build-a-Bear

Build-a-Bear

F.K.A Pala2
A friend of mine got this a few years back, symptoms went away on their own 3-4 years later. I don't remember him saying he was allergic to wool too though.
 
Dave V

Dave V

Moderator
Staff member
Found a tick on our Staffy today. We’d been walking through a woodland, off trail, short cut to the Avon Water.

Nothing on me or the Puppy. Time to get spraying and treating.
 
S

sherpa

Section Hiker
i take no chances with possible infection from tick bites.

except when snow is on the ground, from head to foot, i wear clothes treated with insect shield.

this is zero hassle as there’s plenty of quality outdoor gear available pretreated.

additionally, i reserve these clothes for outdoor use, minimising the wash cycles and hopefully preserving the potency of the treatment.

and i stock up on this gear whenever its heavily discounted.

i also treat my fabric boots/shoes

:D
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
sherpa said:
this is zero hassle as there’s plenty of quality outdoor gear available pretreated.

additionally, i reserve these clothes for outdoor use, minimising the wash cycles and hopefully preserving the potency of the treatment.
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I have some Rohan Trailblazer trousers (which are brilliant by the way) that have "Insect Shield" treatment which is Permethrin. I've written to them today for care instructions and for advice on re-treatment. Here's the reply:

"With regards to the treatment, the garment is 'dipped' onto the Insect Shield treatment once manufactured. We do advise that this will last up to 70 washes, however even after this point, it will still be effective. We would not recommend that these garments should need a re-treatment"
 
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cathyjc

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
Robin said:
Just read that Pfizer are developing a vaccine for Lyme disease. Seems that covid has alerted pharma companies to the potential of vaccines. mRNA technologies seems to opening up new potential, most notably in cancer.
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Yes.
Genetic technologies are "coming of age" :):):).
Immunotheraphy for cancer and other diseases is based on genetic manipulation of all sorts - and it's revolutionising treatments.
I'm a beneficiary and most grateful :thumbsup:.
 
S

sherpa

Section Hiker
PhilHo said:
I have some Rohan Trailblazer trousers (which are brilliant by the way) that have "Insect Shield" treatment which is Permethrin. I've written to them today for care instructions and for advice on re-treatment. Here's the reply:

"With regards to the treatment, the garment is 'dipped' onto the Insect Shield treatment once manufactured. We do advise that this will last up to 70 washes, however even after this point, it will still be effective. We would not recommend that these garments should need a re-treatment"
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my favourite are the Trailblazer convertibles - turn in to comfortable, classy shorts. Newly designed this season - double thigh pockets, not a fan.

insect shield claim 95-100% effectiveness against ticks after 70 washes - thats rather impressive resistance to modern detergents. i prefer to be cautious and maintain in as new a condition as possible.
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
sherpa said:
lyme disease a problem in Western Isles
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-56563195
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That looks like a report prompted by a student study that set out to prove the bleeding obvious. Why would anyone think that ticks are more prevalent in woodland than in open areas in the first place.

IMO the reason that tick populations, in the Highlands and Islands, are on the increase is down to the ending of the legal requirement for sheep to be dipped in an insecticide (an arachnicide) dip twice a year, this was for scab but had the effect of controlling ticks as well. Up to about 30 years ago sheep went around mopping up ticks as they moved around the fields and hill and then they were gathered in and dipped, killing all of the ticks they had picked up. Now farmers can decide if they want to do this or not. Some of the big estates, around that time, took the decision to take their flocks off the hills and stop sheep farming altogether. Instead they allowed the deer populations to increase to provide increased "sporting" income.

If i ruled Scotland and found myself serious about controlling ticks I would have an annual gather of all deer in late spring and pour on a dose of Ivermectin on each of them. That would kill tick on them for about 6+weeks. Important note: Ivermectin pour on is not currently licensed for deer AFAIK and is currently not indicated for tick control but if you can develop and approve a human vaccine in 9 months I'm damn well sure you can get a wormer/insecticide approved for deer in less time. Anecdotally where Ivermec drench was used in sheep it controlled ticks.
 
cathyjc

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
PhilHo said:
That looks like a report prompted by a student study that set out to prove the bleeding obvious. Why would anyone think that ticks are more prevalent in woodland than in open areas in the first place.

IMO the reason that tick populations, in the Highlands and Islands, are on the increase is down to the ending of the legal requirement for sheep to be dipped in an insecticide (an arachnicide) dip twice a year, this was for scab but had the effect of controlling ticks as well. Up to about 30 years ago sheep went around mopping up ticks as they moved around the fields and hill and then they were gathered in and dipped, killing all of the ticks they had picked up. Now farmers can decide if they want to do this or not. Some of the big estates, around that time, took the decision to take their flocks off the hills and stop sheep farming altogether. Instead they allowed the deer populations to increase to provide increased "sporting" income.

If i ruled Scotland and found myself serious about controlling ticks I would have an annual gather of all deer in late spring and pour on a dose of Ivermectin on each of them. That would kill tick on them for about 6+weeks. Important note: Ivermectin pour on is not currently licensed for deer AFAIK and is currently not indicated for tick control but if you can develop and approve a human vaccine in 9 months I'm damn well sure you can get a wormer/insecticide approved for deer in less time. Anecdotally where Ivermec drench was used in sheep it controlled ticks.
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Sheep dipping and tick control - :thumbsup:.

The downside of dipping is the exposure to toxic chemicals that the farmers endured.
If a chemical is "nasty" enough to kill an insect it is probably not too good for humans either.

Scottish islands and ticks.
I can attest that the west coast of Jura is heavily infested with ticks and there are very few trees. Ticks don't "live off" trees they depend on warm blooded hosts and there are very many of those (deer) on Jura. The surrounding vegetation is important only in that it gives the tick somwhere to launch its self off to catch it's next meal.
 
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OwenM

OwenM

Thru Hiker
The trouble with sheep dip was organo phosphates very nasty. Domesticated sheep could be hearded into the dip, not sure you could do it with un-domesticated deer. There's not that much overlap between sheep and red deer, don't know about other species of deer. So not convinced dipping the sheep would have that much effect.
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
cathyjc said:
Sheep dipping and tick control - :thumbsup:.

The downside of dipping is the exposure to toxic chemicals that the farmers endured.
If a chemical is "nasty" enough to kill an insect it is probably not too good for humans either.

Scottish islands and ticks.
I can attest that the west coast of Jura is heavily infested with ticks and there are very few trees. Ticks don't "live off" trees they depend on warm blooded hosts and there are very many of those (deer) on Jura. The surrounding vegetation is important only in that it gives the tick somwhere to launch its self off to catch it's next meal.
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My (uncompleted) research degree was on the effect of Abate (an organophosphate insecticide) on fresh water invertebrates. The WHO in their wisdom were tipping gallons of the stuff into rivers in West Africa to kill off black fly larvae, black fly carry river blindness. The riverside communities showed a big reduction in blindness but were starving because the fish populations were reduced in size and density. Anyway as part of my preliminary research I read everything that had been published on Abate and found a study, funded by the WHO, where they tipped various concentrations of the stuff over "volunteers" (paid) in West Africa. The symptoms were identical to what became known as dip flu but was in fact poisoning mainly affecting the central nervous system. I gave a copy of that paper to a crofter in Achiltibuie who was afllicted.

Towards the end of dipping they moved away from organophosphates and on to permethrin type "green" dips.

The point about Ivermectin is it is mainly given as a wormer but works against mange, mites, bots etc as well so it would be a perfect candidate. When they gave it to sheep on Skye they found the sheep muck lay around for much longer because the beetles stopped eating it. Also they found that ticks were almost eradicated (on one farm near Dunvegan so therefore an anecdote). I use it for my horses because it kills feather mites in in Sam our Cob.
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
OwenM said:
The trouble with sheep dip was organo phosphates very nasty. Domesticated sheep could be hearded into the dip, not sure you could do it with un-domesticated deer. There's not that much overlap between sheep and red deer, don't know about other species of deer. So not convinced dipping the sheep would have that much effect.
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I wasn't talking about dipping deer, that would be virtually impossible, Ivermectin can be given as a pour/spray on.
 
cathyjc

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
PhilHo said:
My (uncompleted) research degree was on the effect of Abate (an organophosphate insecticide) on fresh water invertebrates. The WHO in their wisdom were tipping gallons of the stuff into rivers in West Africa to kill off black fly larvae, black fly carry river blindness. The riverside communities showed a big reduction in blindness but were starving because the fish populations were reduced in size and density. Anyway as part of my preliminary research I read everything that had been published on Abate and found a study, funded by the WHO, where they tipped various concentrations of the stuff over "volunteers" (paid) in West Africa. The symptoms were identical to what became known as dip flu but was in fact poisoning mainly affecting the central nervous system. I gave a copy of that paper to a crofter in Achiltibuie who was afllicted.

Towards the end of dipping they moved away from organophosphates and on to permethrin type "green" dips.

The point about Ivermectin is it is mainly given as a wormer but works against mange, mites, bots etc as well so it would be a perfect candidate. When they gave it to sheep on Skye they found the sheep muck lay around for much longer because the beetles stopped eating it. Also they found that ticks were almost eradicated (on one farm near Dunvegan so therefore an anecdote). I use it for my horses because it kills feather mites in in Sam our Cob.
Click to expand...

The lesson I take from that is - if you "mess" with one part of an ecosystem there can be all sorts of unforseen consequences.
It's like a plate of spagetti that is covered over - you can pull and tweak one strand but cannot see what is happening in the middle or predict which/where the other end is .....
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
cathyjc said:
The lesson I take from that is - if you "mess" with one part of an ecosystem there can be all sorts of unforseen consequences.
It's like a plate of spagetti that is covered over - you can pull and tweak one strand but cannot see what is happening in the middle or predict which/where the other end is .....
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I agree. Even with things where the aim is totally positive and logically you would expect a positive outcome an unexpected consequence will often arise.
 
TinTin

TinTin

Thru Hiker
OwenM said:
But you'll still have to get close enough to spray in on.
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It is done on deer farms and parks now. Alternatively if could possibly be fed to them in the winter. I think they need to start thinking creatively as this problem is starting to be perceived as something major and something needs to be done. I just reckon that deer are the most easily targeted compared to small mammals and ground living birds that are the other hosts of ticks.
 
cathyjc

cathyjc

Thru Hiker
PhilHo said:
It is done on deer farms and parks now. Alternatively if could possibly be fed to them in the winter. I think they need to start thinking creatively as this problem is starting to be perceived as something major and something needs to be done. I just reckon that deer are the most easily targeted compared to small mammals and ground living birds that are the other hosts of ticks.
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Certain estates have been known to round red deer up, using choppers, and coral them before shipping them out live for sale. Frowned on if not actually illegal (??).
So it's not impossible.
Dosing at winter feed stations would seem less expensive.
In NZ where red deer are not native and seen as a pest they are regularly culled from the air.
 
OwenM

OwenM

Thru Hiker
PhilHo said:
Anyway as part of my preliminary research I read everything that had been published on Abate and found a study, funded by the WHO, where they tipped various concentrations of the stuff over "volunteers" (paid) in West Africa. The symptoms were identical to what became known as dip flu but was in fact poisoning mainly affecting the central nervous system. I gave a copy of that paper to a crofter in Achiltibuie who was afllicted.
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My now ex partner's father died of a mysterious illness. At the time it was put down as Parkinson's but many of his symptoms weren't typical of Parkinsons. The family were never convinced and suspect sheep dip poisoning, he was a sheep farmer.
 
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